by frankiespeakin 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
markfromcali:
I could not agree more. Phenomenon vs. pneumenon I suppose. Samadhi Vs. Sati. I have been reluctant to try chakra meditation (did it once, with an instuctor) do to the possibility of getting caught up in side effects. The old maxim "know thyself" comes into play, I guess. You have to know what you want out of whatever you are doing.
Zen:Good post, though I suspect it will be too deep for most (and I don't mean that condescendingly for anyone).
As for energy, I'd like to harken back to Mark's comments about the WuQi state.
This should be the correct start point for moving energy, and starting the likes of TaiChi.
How many truly know about it, though?
Mark:Did you get as far as silk reeling?
Gita:
"Know thyself", indeed!
How far do you trust "what you want", though?
Errrg. I'm such a beginner
SS
LT:
How far do you trust "what you want", though?
Good question, and there is one of the biggest dangers, as you will possibly agree, in a spiritual journey. What do we want? Enlightenment, a Morgan Plus 8, our hair back.. I have found the question, while not exactly answered, to be at least put in a forward spin so to speak, by a Rosicrucian (Mystic Christian) teaching tradition, that basically has you realize the bigger goals are there, but that they can be broken down. Ergo:
I want enlightenment.
Well, who don't. Try getting it in the next week or so, and only that, and just about anyone can become fazed and upset. I would, anyway, and have. But breaking it down into what we know we want, by constant self analysis, be it through contemplative prayer, vipassana, tarot meditations, jogging what have you, helps.
"In time a weariness develops for the work" -Alestair Crowley.
Errrg. I'm such a beginner
Not at all. The above are just words and concepts on a discussion board. A few of the words are so vague as to not have any decent definitions, and not one of the ideas is original. You are just fine.
Dolph,
I think there may be some misunderstanding. I was talking about qigong as it is energy work, but it is a practice so I'm not sure what symptoms you are pointing to. I have not talked about any experiences I've had because in this case it will probably just further distract and would be what one might consider as "unskillful." Besides, I'm no longer fascinated by such things.
To be frank, in my experience some people who have had such experiences are actually kind of spiritually naive. Whether they realize it or not, there is some clinging to the experience - if there is no clinging there would be no suffering, and very often there is clearly suffering. It is as if the energetic shifts is not accompanied by any understanding.
By understanding I do not mean having found this information that it's called kundalini and the context of that knowledge system, but understanding yourself, the nature of mind. We might say the physical shift is not balanced by a mental shift in this case, which would be a shift of identification. All ego death means is the death of that identification, you still have a personality structure - you just don't identify with it. This shift of identity can happen before you have any spiritual experience, which is more a matter of it happening from the inside out, the central core has changed and it just kind of spreads out naturally from there. In contrast, some people who have intense experiences may never have it go that deep, in which case it's just suffering and something for the mind to identify with.
Its just energy. Its not to be ignored, but clinging or aversion to this experience is as much egoic behavior as doing so with ordinary experience. The real work is to inquire what is this you take as "I", that is the direct way. When that is seen through you won't be sitting there having ideas about "your" relationship to the experience, there will just be the experience and it can then run it's course unimpeded. To be honest such energetic shifts is really quite shallow when you compare it with a shift of consciousness, actually there is no comparison. You can have these experiences and barely scratch the surface in terms of consciousness itself, or not at all.
As a side note, some people may have done other work like qigong or Tai Chi which renders any such reharmonizing of the body minimal - intensity of the experience is not really an indicator of how genuine it is. In any case, the thing to do is to just be aware of what's going on, not get all caught up in stories about it (even if there is some truth to it) or the drama. And again, to address it directly you have to look deeply, beyond the experience.
Six:
I love the way you cut through the BS
Why thank you. If you don't let it harden it actually cuts easily.
But breaking it down into what we know we want, by constant self analysis, be it through contemplative prayer, vipassana, tarot meditations, jogging what have you, helps.
I prefer to call it running, but it does clear my head. I don't want to have convulsions while I run, just think about my life and what I'm going to do next.
That is truly all I got out of this thread...that and what six said. lol
LT: No I never did silk reeling, I'm not sure if that's something they teach in Yang style. Like many the place I learned Tai Chi doesn't really explain a whole lot, there's just a lot of forms and push hands practice. The qigong class I'm taking now is taught by a doctor of medical qigong (China) and it IS explained why you do everything, one exercise is the same as Fair Lady and I now know which meridians it dialates and so forth.
At this point I'm not even all that interested in energy work, especially when I see people do it from a gross state of consciousness and it just kind of makes me shake my head and go "man..." because I know it can be much smoother if they approach it from there first. Of course, when you really go there there's no telling if you'd still be interested in that kind of work. So... Basically it's kind of hard for me to take it all seriously.
