by frankiespeakin 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I should perhaps have added that I never suffered any kind of convulsions.
I embraced the "awakening" almost intuitively, and it all occured very smoothly.
I'll reiterate again, that there are many names and many degrees of that which may occur within the human-being.
Six:
We're still talking about BS, right
Errrg. I'm such a beginnerNot at all. The above are just words and concepts on a discussion board. A few of the words are so vague as to not have any decent definitions, and not one of the ideas is original. You are just fine.
Amen. A lot of "spiritually advanced" people never learn this basic lesson, that it's just concepts. When you really look at what they're doing they are just indulging in the thoughts, doing more of the same thing doesn't make you advanced in any way.
Mark:
I have to say that I benefit from the QiQong.
It's certainly got more of the health aspects.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I practice Chen Old Style, which is a little more martial and strenuous than most. I was fortunate that "a teacher appeared when I required one" (which is unusual for such a small island). He was acquainted with every aspect that I wished, from this art.
Give me another year or so, and I may move on to the "Cannon Fist" Form
As I stated before, I've greatly benefited from my Zhan Zhuang practice, especially as my asthma has all but cleared up. What started as an exercise that I could only do for a couple of minutes has become an exercise that I enjoy for up to an hour at a time.
I'm quite intrigued by this statement Mark "There are more direct ways that can lead to awakening ". Care to tell us more?
City, I mentioned this in one of my replies - it's inquiry. The thing is, most people turn enlightenment into an object for seeking, whereas the whole matter is about what is real, what is true. The most direct way to do that is simply to inquire, which can take the form of questions such as Who am I? What is this? Its not meant for an answer, thats just another mental object. Its quite simply an open curiosity without the assumption of some pre-existing spiritual system, which would imply that you can't really do it as a practice, as if repeating a specific question many times will magically wake you up. But if you are so honest as to ask a question like "what does being enlightened mean anyway?", then that would be real inquiry.
Outwardly focused practices are progressive and kind of approaches it from the outside in, whereas inquiry is direct and from the inside out. This is what I was getting at in terms of consciousness as opposed to energy work. In this context even energy work would be more surface and outwardly oriented, but yes as pointed out it's nice to have that foundation of health.
Mark,
To be frank, in my experience some people who have had such experiences are actually kind of spiritually naive. Whether they realize it or not, there is some clinging to the experience - if there is no clinging there would be no suffering, and very often there is clearly suffering. It is as if the energetic shifts is not accompanied by any understanding.
Well, I wouldn't call someone undergoing spontaneous mudras, chanting, and kriyas naive. Kundalini happens SPONTANEOUSLY. It isn't a practice, like doing a morning meditation or exercising in the park. It's something you consciously have no control over. It forces you into higher states of consciousness in order to bring about a destruction of the ego. There are a lot of crazies who hang on and search out phenomena. Not me. Not after going through what I have gone through.
I was talking about qigong as it is energy work, but it is a practice so I'm not sure what symptoms you are pointing to.
I thought you were referring to it happening spontaneously. If it's something you are intentionally practicing, something you've learned in class, then I misunderstood you. Often times a kundalini awakening can cause you to spontaneously perform chi gong type of work, with no learning whatsover. I'm assuming that tai chi, yoga, and other chi based work all comes from one source, and a kundalini awakening channels that same source. If I meditate in a standing position, in a few minutes I will began doing tai chi/yoga type movements. It happens spontaneously. It's almost like playing a guitar. However, at times it has happened with no initiation at all on my part, and that can be quite disconcerning, especially in public.
Its just energy. Its not to be ignored, but clinging or aversion to this experience is as much egoic behavior as doing so with ordinary experience.
I think you would have to be put in the shoes of a person undergoing a kundalini awakening to better understand your attitude towards it. First of all it is real contact with divine energy. Second, the experience itself is the catalyst towards bringing about an awakening. Granted, it's not nescessary to have a kundalini awakening in order to become enlightened. But, it is a sure fire way to do so in one lifetime. Which is it's purpose. The phenomena is the "work" involved to physically transform your mind and body into a divine vessel. This is the whole point of yoga. There is a difference between people looking for little spiritual "rushes" and "energy flow" and someone undergoing a kundalini awakening.
The real work is to inquire what is this you take as "I", that is the direct way. When that is seen through you won't be sitting there having ideas about "your" relationship to the experience, there will just be the experience and it can then run it's course unimpeded. To be honest such energetic shifts is really quite shallow when you compare it with a shift of consciousness, actually there is no comparison. You can have these experiences and barely scratch the surface in terms of consciousness itself, or not at all.
The experiences of a kundalin awakening are in fact forcing a person to physically change their consciousness. Other experiences may just be energy shifts or the flow of chi or whatever, but a kundalini awakening is directly designed to force about inquiring about the "I" and questiong who you really think "you" are. Like I said in previously, many people have achieved enlightment simply through inquiry and meditation alone. For others, the kundalini rises to force about it more intensely. It's possibly doing so because they're maybe no other way to get the person to awaken otherwise.
And again, to address it directly you have to look deeply, beyond the experience.
Absolutely. Trust me, when these experiences happen you want answers. If it would've been just a little "rush" or a "tingly feeling", I might have said, "Oh, that's cool. That must be chi or something". However, when you begin doing spontaneous chanting in Sanskrit, assuming sponataneous yoga and tai chi postures, YOU NEED REAL ANSWERS. The experiences force you to inquire, to seek out answers. I now see a Hindu renunciate who helps me. Her basic teaching is exactly what you bring up, to look beyond the experiences and seek out their source, which is divine conciousness itself.
I think our disconnect here is simple: Your talking about phenomena that people chase looking for a spiritual high and I'm talking about a specific phenomena, kundalini, which through it's phenomena/experiences to transform someone into an awakened being. Like I said, it is not nescessary to have kundalini to awaken. However, the Yogis often refer to it as a sure fire way to get enlightenment, once it is unleashed. Because there is no going back, it literally forces it about. Some people need that extra kick in the ass.
But I highly recommend someone who'se simply interested in phenomena to seek out a kundalini awakening. Those type of people go mad. Because it's one of those things that you should be careful to ask for, because you just might get it. The experiences ARE THE MOST INTENSE, and quite frankly, scary. It's one thing to feel something spiritual, it's another to have no choice but to KNOW it was. Now that will force you to really inquire who you "think" you are, and the ego soon finds itself fighting to maintain a hold.
You all do realize that any lurking JW viewing this thread will be TERRIFIED.
Perhaps I am too!
Bradley
But I highly recommend someone who'se simply interested in phenomena to seek out a kundalini awakening
Whoops! I meant I recommend they DONT seek it out. Sorry.
Also, I don't want to come across as an ass. I just think there is a lot of ignorance concerning Kundalini awakenings. If you really want to know more about them, do a google on it or go to www.kundalinisupport.com.
There are books on it. It's mostly a hindu/yoga thing, but the Tantric Buhddist refer to it as well.
It's not all new agey hearts and flowers shit.
logansrun,
If my mother ever found out she would be TERRIFIED too. In fact, I think it could even kill her.
Sometimes I wonder if this is why the WS purposely forbade JWs from meditating. I think they were afraid of people finding out the real truth.
Hell, even I thought I was being attacked by a demon when it first started happening. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I logged onto the watchtowers website and contemplated calling up an elder. It really did a number on me.
I should perhaps have added that I never suffered any kind of convulsions.
But I highly recommend someone who'se simply interested in phenomena to seek out a kundalini awakening. Those type of people go mad. Because it's one of those things that you should be careful to ask for, because you just might get it.
Why would you highly recommend something that makes a person go mad?
The experiences ARE THE MOST INTENSE, and quite frankly, scary.
WTF? I'll stick to running.
disclaimer: I'm not trying to make light of your personal experiences. I believe they are real but I am and always will be a smart ass who can't resist an opportunity when it arises.
However, I do want to know why Dolph would recommend an experience that might very well make me go mad.
