social retard

by MerryMagdalene 124 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Jez

  One more thing: Alot of ppl have mentioned an inability to trust others. I know myself that I don't, and I have been thinking, in the shower, lol, that this may be due to a questioning of their true intentions in their dealings with us.

  Our backgrounds are full of hidden intents, converting ppl ("oh no, our intent is not to convert you, just to provide you with some bible knowledge"), talks addressed to the congregation, ("Some ppl may feel that it is ok to engage in worldly activities such as extreme sports" Was he talking about ME, but not to me?), decline of invites (have I been secretly 'marked'?), WT studies (all the biblical lead up to a chatising/correcting of a modern problem at the end of the article, my first action was to always turn to the end of the article to see what they were hinting at), shunning, (we do it because we love them, WHA? Reality=to shut them up from exposing truths) etc etc etc etc.....

  WE know what not trusting is all about because we were taught to carefully conceal OUR true intentions and perhaps we assume others that enter our lives are doing the same.

  Jez
• 

  Odrade

  Jez, I owe you an apology for the yelling.

  The only thing I can say in my defense is that I was pre-migraine and I always act a little bit crazy then. Unfortunately, I can't see it coming until it hits me, and I think I am reacting in a perfectly rational way until a couple of days later, looking back.

  I'm sorry for getting so rude with you. I'm really not all self-righteous IRL, and I'm sorry I got that way here. I don't know what else to say.

  Odrade
• 

  Country Girl

  I can identify with parts of most everyone's experience here. I was raised as a JW <though not baptized, but might as well have been> and lived a double life, too. I was raised in a really liberal Kingdom Hall in the city, but at the same time had to live a really closeted life, in another way. My Mom happened to be a more liberal Mother in that I was allowed music and art lessons; allowed to enter art contests; and allowed to really stretch my creative imagination. She allowed me to be in plays, school sports, and other worldly things. On the other hand, I was not allowed to date boys, or be with boys alone. I think her real preoccupation was that I did not get pregnant outside of marriage, so in that department I was fiercely guarded. It never occurred to me if what I was doing was being a hypocrit, in fact, I don't even think I thought of that word. The only thing I was doing was being *me* and doing what it took to please myself, the world, my Mom and the religion. As I grew older, the cognitive dissonance got to me, then I knew the meaning of hypocrit, but before that all I was doing was preserving my sanity, my individuality, my self. Hypocrit had nothing to do with it. I had no choice. What I did then was what I COULD do then to survive.

  However, I got a worldly boyfriend at school and he was encouraged by me to study. he did, but nothing came of it. We were boyfriend and girlfriend at school, and nothing else. He left me for a more normal girl that could go out on dates with him.

  While I can identify with Jez about what she says about being raised a JW in a more liberal environment <my Father was not a JW>, I can understand the environment of the more isolated JW kids I knew. I felt bad for them. Their parents REALLY kept them isolated, and shut off, and even though they were invited to all the get-togethers in our congregation .. they were still socially inept in some way at that time because their parents were much more strict than mine were. They were not allowed to develop their social skills and they were subjected to maybe a much more strict household than I was. I understood that at an early age and always tried to be a very good friend to them, no matter what.

  CG
• 

  Jez

  CG: I have been racking my brain for examples of 'isolated' teens. I have thought of 2 in my old congregation like that and about 10 of us that were 'double-lifers'. You are so right when you said that, at that time, we never thought of being 'two-faced' or 'hypocritical' or 'not a 'real' witness'....I just assumed that their parents were strict. As if I would ever entertain the notion that it was the religion to blame!

  Guess what, those 2 girls have led a hell of a life after they got away from their parents....they were both eventually df'ed and I hope they are healthy now in every way.

  Odrade: I am walking on this journey with no idea of the destination nor the sideroads I must take to get there. I just try to learn from every experience I encounter...I have learned alot from my encounter with you.

  Cheers Jez
• 

  Country Girl

  Actually, Jez, in real life, there were lots of kids in my school that were in the same boat. Not because they were JWs, but just because they were naturally more inhibited, and naturally loners. Just like in REAL life. They didn't do anything wrong, or say anything wrong, or act any different way in particular, they just didn't have the social skills to propell them to the popular class. There was nothing WRONG with them, nothing at all. In fact, they were the <now that I look back> most interesting parts of my class.

  I do, as much as you do, hate the "class" difference in people these days, but reality is reality. It only reflects our culture as a whole. It's not the PRIME multiclasscultural life-view of the few that believe that our life in the United States is politically correct. Fact is, we all, including the South, have social definitions in our culture, and we live and die by them. It's only quiet that there are still radical racial differentiations in our view of others, and that's the problem.

  In the Kingdom Hall, it's no different. It's a mini Society. Those that are mostly socially inept are put at the bottom, and those that can bring more converts are put at the top, although you would think that those that were the most weak would be cared for the most.. it defies simple logistics.

  CG
• 

  MerryMagdalene

  (((Odrade))) Maybe things did get a little too intense but I still want to say thank you for coming to the defense of those still hurting and unsure of themselves (myself included). I think you are very caring and just wanted to let you know...

  ~Merry
• 

  Berean

  Jez you said: ?Nice example of the black and white thinking that exists amongst JWs. That is a bunch of bullshit. I think an elder said to me once, "If you had sex outside of marriage, you commit adultry, you should be disfellowshipped." Is that what you think? With no understanding of any other factors? See, they KNEW that I lived in an abusive relationship for 14 years, in silence, for them, for Jehovah, for my family, until one night he was arrested and thrown in jail and I survived with my life. They KNEW that the turmoil I was in, they KNEW everything, they knew I met and fell in love with someone way after the seperation, not DURING the marriage, they knew I married him.......etc...they knew intimate things, but you know what it comes down to? YOUR kind of black and white thinking. There is no grey area for a dub. You say you are not a JW anymore? Well, that certainly is a carry-over, you hypocrite.?
  
  Then to Odrade you said: ? I was riddled with guilt my whole teenage years and into my adult years. I was in constant conflict over who I knew I was 'suppose' to be and who I really was. I was a normal teenage girl going through normal teenage stuff and doing normal teenage stuff. You were and are obviously one of those self-righteous holier than thou kinds that love to bury people alive under a mountain of labels, false accusations and assumptions.?
  
  
  Well! It seems Jez has a way of turning around an argument ? lesson well learned from the Mother Organization. Talk about bullshit. ?I stayed true to myself?? OH wait? ?I was in constant conflict?... then the label??Self-righteous holier than thou?. Jez, you started this with your assertion that you ?stayed true your self? - like the rest of us didn?t little girl? Are you better than the rest of us, somehow superior?
  You were living a dual life ?not true to your self and not true to anyone else. I call that two-faced.
  
  Start something? label the naysayers ? make a plea for sympathy ? conquer.
  
  Score for one for Jez.
• 

  Jez

  Well! It seems Jez has a way of turning around an argument ? lesson well learned from the Mother Organization. Talk about bullshit. ?I stayed true to myself?? OH wait? ?I was in constant conflict?... then the label??Self-righteous holier than thou?. Jez, you started this with your assertion that you ?stayed true your self? - like the rest of us didn?t little girl? Are you better than the rest of us, somehow superior?
  You were living a dual life ?not true to your self and not true to anyone else. I call that two-faced.
  
  Start something? label the naysayers ? make a plea for sympathy ? conquer.
  
  Score for one for Jez.

  LOL! I ask you to try to quote me in full next time. Taking quotes out of context and wrapping them around your arguement is very transparent here...You forgot the tailend of my quote, "I was in constant conflict over who I knew I was 'suppose' to be and who I really was."

  I am not superior. Call my life what you will, your opinion of it is neither here nor there for me.

  I score nothing, this is not a game.

  I admit that I learned some lessons from 'mother organization'. Yah....so...your point is...?

  Um...why are you calling me a little girl? That was just....weird....

  Jez
• 

  Jez

  Notice the number of my last post, look up! LOL
• 

  EvilForce

  There seems to be a fair bit of "blaming" others on this thread. People seem to be angry at others who went thru the growing up years in the borg. Can you honestly say that certain people who were children at the time should be held accountable for how they made it through the mental cruelty and self hating period of "teenagedom" in the borg?!? It's like certain Jews blaming other Jews for certain behavior during the holocaust. DO NOT FORGET WHO CAUSED THE PAIN FOR ALL OF US..... THE SOCIETY..... not each other. Everyone was trying to do their best to get thru that period and beyond. I remember things I did when I was 14, 15, 16 and look back knowing they were probably not right but was taught they were ok behaviors.... marking, avoiding contact, "cliques". So until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes don't assume to know what their circumstances may have been.
  
  I remember the smugness of going door to door with a few elders in our congo. They would get a dismissive, "I'm not interested" from a householder and we'd be walking back to the car and those elders would say "Well I guess Jehovah can put that person in the goat category". It's that smugness that today still makes me sick to my stomach.
  
  The BORG would call us teachers..... but any good teacher ..... myself included will tell you that you consistently learn new things from your students. Can anyone here tell me that they really ever tried to learn something from one of their door to door experiences? I was taught to "overcome objections" and lead the householder to "my point I wanted to make".
  
  Sorry for rambling but there's my 2 cents worth :)