He may not have to help, but he should, because it's the nice thing to do.
Interesting thought mate
Gumby
How do you defend your god's inaction?
by AlmostAtheist 105 Replies latest jw friends
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gumby
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Big Dog
A thought occured to me, do humans always act in logical, rational, explicable ways? Why not? Are we supposedly made in God's image? Did Jesus ever get annoyed, P.O.'d etc or did he walk around with this constant perfect disposition? Why don't we always reason things out and do the logical thing? Emotions, probably half of what people do are based on emotions, hell, most build a significant portion of their life around an emotion called love when they marry, can you prove love, test it in a lab, quantify it? Yet people accept it, act on it, depend on it, lots of crazy irrational people in this world.
Shrinks can't figure out which way the rabbit is going to jump when it comes to human behavior, yet we are going to sit around and analyze and citique God's behavior when half the time we don't even know why we behave the way that we do? How many times have you heard a person say, I did it again, I don't know why I act that way, etc. We are such muddled beings that us trying to analyze another being, expecially one we can't even put on the couch is pretty ridiculous IMO, but have at it.
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diamondblue1974
Re: How do you defend your god's inaction?
To simplify this question you first need to define 'your god' and I agree with SNG on this in that if your god is defined as that in the bible who for all intents and purposes is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing and who also has the ability to intervene to protect his children (as any loving father would do). The question is simply put....how do you defend such inaction. He supposedly intervened in Noah's day...He supposedly intervened in Soddom and Gomorrah...why not now and why not before now?
JWs would have us believe that the reason why God doesnt intervene is because he is proving a point, a point raised by a so called rebellious angel who was thrown out of heaven...if that is the JW considered view then this doesnt make sense in my opinion...as a so called father he has a duty to care for his children...a duty to intervene.
I dont think it is capable of defence...although you could infer that such all powerful God doesnt exist with relative ease...or if he does exist then hes simply let us all out to play...and locked the door behind us!
You choose!
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exjdub
Although I used to post quite a bit, I left JWD for a while (new job, new grandson, etc.), but have been lurking on and off for a few weeks and found this topic to be fascinating. So thank you for the intruiging topic. I can't add much if anything to the subject other than a personal note and a question. On the personal note, SNG said:
If you make any statements about the nature of God whatsoever, you are defining him/her/it/they/blob/force. If you (for example) describe God as "a force that we cannot understand," then that is part of your basic definition of your view of this God problem. The only way not to define God would be to say, "There may or may not be a God-thing-force-person-nonperson whose form or lack thereof is completely unknown to me. I have no further views on the topic." But otherwise, the simple fact that you have a concept of God means that you are defining him in some manner.
Since leaving the Borg, I gradually moved to the above conclusion about "may or may not be a God-thing-force-person-nonperson whose form or lack thereof is completely unknown to me. I think it was easier to think of it that way, most likely out of fear of death and the fear of no afterlife of some type. It was very uncomfortable to conclusively state to myself that the few short years we have to live are all there is. But after reflecting on this for quite some time, along with the thoughtful, well thought out statements on this thread, I think I actually am drifting over to the "there is no God" point of view, at least from the Christian perspective and point of view. I just can't wrap my mind around the complete indifference and inaction of a "loving" being. The "I am going to punish the whole world of mankind because of the actions of the first human couple" just does not make sense, nor is it just, at all. Even when I was a believer I found it difficult to justify. I won't repeat every line of reasoning that has been already well represented, though I will say that it I also find it astounding that with so much suffering and more doubt about God's existence than perhaps any other time in history, would it not be a good time for the Christian God/Jehovah to send some type of clear sign of his caring, love, and existence? For the next move to be total destruction and mayhem, considering how confused everyone is, just does not make sense and would not be considered just by any stretch of the imagination. The only roadblock that I have that prevents me from being a dyed in the wool athiest is that I see intelligent design in the human body, the animal kingdom, etc. I have not been able to work that out yet and the evolution theory just does not answer many of the questions I have. So the quandary continues...
Little Toe: I always find your posts to be well thought out and kind. I don't generally agree with your thoughts on faith and Christianity, however you always make me stop and think. Most likely because you are not dogmatic, or arrogant, and you are open minded enough to leave judgement at the door. The Christians worldwide could learn a thing or two from you that would make them not so obnoxious, but I figure that their intolerable behaviour is repayment for my intolerable behaviour as a Dub, so I believe I am paying the price for my Dub rhetoric and stupidity. Anyway, I digress...The question/questions:
LT: If I understood your earlier analogy about the neighbor watching the child getting torn apart while aunts, uncles, parents, etc., watch, and then having everyone point the finger at the neighbor for letting it happen leaves a gaping hole. How could a God, that is described in the Bible as loving and that wants a personal relationship with individual humans, and that cares about every sparrow that dropped from the sky and numbers the blades of grass, be equated as just a neighbor? It has been represented in the Bible that this entity knows us and knows our weak condition and that he cares for us. He is represented as being a Father. It is represented that he loved humans so much that he gave his son as a sacrifice. How can it be the other way, that he is just an observer in the universe watching mankind from a distance like a neighbor? It cannot be both ways. Either we are specks of dust to him, as represented in the scriptures, or we are creatures that he loves deeply, as represented in the scriptures. If we are created in his image, and we, as humans, could never watch our child be ripped to shreds, how could a loving god allow such a thing to his "children"? I welcome your thoughts.
Thanks to all for the thought provoking and well thought out arguments and comments. It proves that these discussions do not have to generate into hate spewing forums. Peace.
Exjdub
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exjdub
btt
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diamondblue1974
Welcome back Exjdub!
Excellent point well made!
DB74
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exjdub
AlmostAthiest, I should have added that I believe this thread has remained civil largely due to your moderation of it. The way that you raise the topic and keep it on point, without having it degenerate in an "us vs. them" all out war, should be a model for all to use. Nice job for a godless person! LOL.
Exjdub
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exjdub
Thanks and Thanks Diamond. It actually feels good to be back and it is nice to see so many new names that I am not familiar with. The erosion of the Borg continues it appears.
Exjdub
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FreedomFrog
My take on the "inaction" is...
Maybe God started it and then evolution took over. Like as if I created something to see what would happen. Do I think God cares? I feel that He/She/It cares to the extent of the way humans would care for a natural pond that they’ve created. You design it and then let “nature” take over. You love the pond in general but not individual parts of it. That would explain why the Gods/Goddesses don’t step in.
Why does some peoples “prayers” get answered while others don’t? I feel that if one of my fish was jumping out catching bugs…making themselves known that they are hungry, I’d feed them. So when prayers/rituals and so forth happen, the one with the loudest or more heartfelt will become more noticeable to the Gods. The rest is by chance.
I feel that God/Goddess (or whatever started this) takes care of the "pond" or earth as a whole. But not as pieces to it. So a fish or multiple fish could die because of some random chance. But on whole steps in to make sure that the pond (world) isn't totally destroyed.
This is what I currently believe in but no means is written in stone. I'm very much a skeptic and lots can change.
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AlmostAtheist
Nice job for a godless person! LOL.
LOL! Thanks, you're not so bad yourself for a frothing-at-the-mouth, lying, evil APOSTATE!
It HAS been a good, enriching discussion, due to all of the great points brought to the table. And the fact that the believers have not recoiled in disgust when their beliefs are questioned. These apostate-types really aren't too bad, are they? :-)
Dave