How do you defend your god's inaction? (page 7)

OldSoul

LittleToe: Be still and know "I am" God.

What unmitigated Gaul!

I think I understand what you are communicating here, but I don't think there is enough groundwork laid for someone else to cross the bridge. Not even sure the bridge has been built yet.

SNG,

It works very much like predetermining what reality is limited to. If you start from that perspective, you are bound to arrive at conclusions that establish your initial assumption because you are predestined to exclude anything that would lead outside your paradigm.

The same is true of the perpetuated concept that God is like something we know of. If we restrict God to a paradigm of our creation and invention, we will bind "Him" to our own concepts of morality. That would indeed be creating God in our image. However, LittleToe and some others here have dispensed with that starting point. You don't understand why God "hasn't acted" because you are only looking at it from one predetermined and unwavering vantage point.

Has no good come from the Tsunami? What about the recent earthquake? People who once were fighting with one another (as recently as a week ago) are now sharing, hand-in-hand, with trying to rebuild lives, develop new dreams and hopes for the future. Did people die? Yes. Would you prefer that everyone live forever? How will you feed them? Where will you find them shelter? Should nothing suffer? We find suffering throughout existence, but you want me to explain why a Creator allows human suffering.

"All things are lawful...but not all things are advantageous." The same applies to all things being possible. I believe God can destroy everything and start over. Why doesn't "He"? Do you want that, really? I don't. I want to love and learn and experience life until I die.

There is more in heaven and earth...Our philosophies have always gotten in the way of our understanding, they have only added to our knowledge.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

LittleToe

OldSoul:There is no bridge. Sometimes you have to leeeaaaaapppppp!!!!

Tis a bit like that scene in the last Indiana Jones movie (the one where they use the name Iehovah).

trevor

This thread clearly illustrates the dilemma that arises when we hold a mental picture of a god as described in the Bible.

We start with a god who had made man in ‘his own’ image and then expect him to act in the way a decent man would. The god of the Bible is not in anyway decent, civilized or fair.

If we look at reality and the awesome life force that is at work every day giving life to our world we see that we have been given all we need to. Paradise is already here. It is the action of mankind and his use of that gift that is at fault.

This thread shows that those who still think of god as a male deity who plays games with humans, have failed recognise the life force for what it really is, to give credit where it is due, and failed to acknowledge all that it does for us daily.......................

AlmostAtheist

This thread shows that those who still think of god as a male deity who plays games with humans, have failed recognise the life force for what it really is, to give credit where it is due, and failed to acknowledge all that it does for us daily.......................

I feel my 7-yr-old theologian coming out again...

Ok, so the idea here is that basically the "god" that I am holding up in front of you all and asking this question about doesn't exist. He is an inadvertant strawman that we are batting around, while you are standing over there trying to help us understand that god isn't that.

Which leads to the question, "What is god?"

Which I am assuming has no answer. (right?)

So then what is your basis for believing it exists? For instance, I don't believe in Thor, and you likely don't either. I know what causes thunder and lightning, and it isn't Thor. I've never been threatened by Thor, or saved by him. I don't know of anyone that was. On that basis, I can comfortably say that I don't think he exists. Do you think Thor exists? Why not? Do you think God exists? Why?

I'm not being argumentative, just trying to let this play out.

Thanks!

Dave

Big Dog

Dave, my GUESS would be that most believe in God because that's what they were taught as a child. Then as adults they came to a crossroads where the choice is, I can't believe the Universe and everything I see just happened or yes, I believe that all this I see is a mathematical probability playing itself out.

The thing that stops me short of going atheist is where did everything come from, not to be confused with evolution stuff, but why is there anything instead of nothing. Big Bang, well, what caused the big bang? If the universe just always was, then that is no different to me than the arguement that God just always was.

LittleToe

Dave:
What do you need saving from?

daystar

We as a species use gods to explain away things we do not understand. It's that way now, and has always been that way.

Science explained what lightning really is so that we don't have to attribute it to a god named Thor. Explaining away God, capital G, is trickier since He's attributed as having caused Everything, not just lightning, for example.

OldSoul

Dave,

Keep in mind that you are asking for personal beliefs and reasons. I am not asserting authority in this respect for someone else, I am not preaching to anyone about what they should do, nor would I ever attempt to clinically prove the truth of my basis for belief.

I know God exists, from personal experiences that I do not believe anyone can substantiate in a laboratory or experiment. God is not a "thing" in terms of our understanding of the word, anymore than gravity is a thing. God cannot be "identified" as a thing, but God exists nonetheless.

God can choose impact our "physical" realm (dimensions: 3s·1t) as well, again, I believe this from personal experience. I expect I will have other experiences like this, but since I cannot predict when or whether it would not be possible to test or falsify, therefore it cannot be clinically proved.

Since I am aware that these beliefs are based on personal experience, and since I do not claim authority based on these experiences, and since I do not believe these experiences can be proved or validated by someone else, I am not delusional. I believe, but I'm not stupid.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

AlmostAtheist

Dave:

What do you need saving from?

Honestly now, LT, are you intentionally not answering questions? Or is this an answer and I just don't get it?

Don't tire out, this sounds like it's heading toward a conclusion.

The unanswered questions are from this line: "Do you think Thor exists? Why not? Do you think God exists? Why?"

If the universe just always was, then that is no different to me than the arguement that God just always was.

Without some evidence one way or the other, I agree. However the universe has the advantage of undeniably being here, while god can't make the same claim. While many claim not to believe in god, almost nobody claims not to believe in the universe.

I know God exists, from personal experiences

This is a very honest admission. I too have had personal experiences that led me to believe there was a god, but I don't trust them now. I found that my way of interpreting what happened was what led me to see it as a god-moment instead of just a moment-moment. (My experiences were unique to me and don't reflect the value of anyone else's experiences.)

Dave

Big Dog

Without some evidence one way or the other, I agree. However the universe has the advantage of undeniably being here, while god can't make the same claim. While many claim not to believe in god, almost nobody claims not to believe in the universe.

Dave,

Right, but I guess to me that is a loop, yes the universe is here, but we are back to how did it get here, it either always was or something had to cause it to be, so I could argue that fact that there is a universe is as strong an arguement that God exists as anything.

How do you defend your god's inaction?

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