I remember years ago when I was a "devout" JW there was a co-worker of mine that spent every waking minute trying to convert JW's to born-again christianity. I was abit afraid of him because I thought he was demon-possessed. He had all of the old WT publications and spent many hours debating with JW elders. He even pickited with a group of christians at some of the JW assemblies. This was in the year 1983 and I recently ran into another co-worker that worked with both of us at that job and I was told that my "apostate" former co-worker is now a devout JW and pioneering. I just cannot believe this but my former co-worker would have no reason to lie because she used to hate JW's and born-agains. She gave me his phone number and I am afraid to call him now after 20 years. The situations are now in reverse now I am the apostate trying to convince JW's of the errors of the WT and he is a JW. I just don't know what I could say to him that he has not already heard or said to me in 1983. We would debate hours on end after work in the park across the street from our job. I would get home late sometimes and barely had time to clean up and run to the theocratic ministry school. Sometimes we would meet on weekends when we were off from work and we would just go in a circle with the bible. We mainly talked about the trinity doctrine and the deity of Jesus and he would always tell me that I was going to hell for rejecting the trinity and I would tell him he would be destroyed for believing in it. Do any of you posters out there know of any "apostates" or "evil slaves" that went back to JW's or became JW's?
booker-t
JoinedPosts by booker-t
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Do you know of any "apostates" or "evil slaves" that went back to JW's?
by booker-t ini remember years ago when i was a "devout" jw there was a co-worker of mine that spent every waking minute trying to convert jw's to born-again christianity.
i was abit afraid of him because i thought he was demon-possessed.
he had all of the old wt publications and spent many hours debating with jw elders.
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I am totally confused about the new "DF and DA" announcements for March 05
by booker-t ini am totally confused by the new way jw's will be kicked out of the wts.
since they no longer will be classified as df or da can i get a refund on my da and no longer be viewed as "satan" by my former jw friends and family.
how will jw's know if someone is df or da if they are announced "no longer one of jw's?
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booker-t
I am totally confused by the new way JW's will be kicked out of the WTS. Since they no longer will be classified as DF or DA can I get a refund on my DA and no longer be viewed as "satan" by my former JW friends and family. How will JW's know if someone is DF or DA if they are announced "no longer one of JW's? How will the elders refer to ex-JW's that are gone. Would it be something like "the artist formerly known as Prince"? I think they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Because all of the DF and DA jws can now say with the new policy my DF or DA is void. Also will reinstatement be a thing of the past if no one is DF or DA? What about "public reproof" are they going to go back to saying so and so is on "probation" what is wrong with the society it seems it must be teetering and ready to crumble.
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Clarifying the new policy regarding DF'd and DA'd announcements
by booker-t ini read that in the new organized to do jehovah's will book coming out in march at the kh, elders will on say sister so and so is no longer one of jw's.
an elder that i work with said that they will announce from now on joe bloe has been disfellowshipped from the christian cong and is no longer a jw.
or jan bloe has disassociated herself and is no longer one of jw's so they are still going to say df and da but i think they are going to drop the part "conduct unbecoming of a christian" because this can get them into legal trouble when a person goes to the military or votes or takes a blood transfusion.
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booker-t
I read that in the new Organized to do Jehovah's will book coming out in March at the KH, Elders will on say Sister so and so is no longer one of JW's. An elder that I work with said that they will announce from now on Joe Bloe has been disfellowshipped from the christian cong and is no longer a JW. Or Jan Bloe has Disassociated herself and is no longer one of JW's so they are still going to say DF and DA but I think they are going to drop the part "conduct unbecoming of a christian" because this can get them into legal trouble when a person goes to the military or votes or takes a blood transfusion. And I guess they will continue to say "Jan Bloe has been reproved but is"still" on of JW's.
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I debated with my "devout" JW mom and her JW elders for 5 hours
by booker-t inas most of you know by now i have told you that my mom has been a "devout" jw for over 40 years and i can't get her to budge.
well the last time we debated she left me totally confused and in a daze.
i did some fast research and this past sunday we had a free-for-all debate that lasted 5 hours.
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booker-t
As most of you know by now I have told you that my mom has been a "devout" JW for over 40 years and I can't get her to budge. Well the last time we debated she left me totally confused and in a daze. I did some fast research and this past Sunday we had a free-for-all debate that lasted 5 hours. The good point of it was that we had the debate with her elders in back of the kingdom hall with all of the old books. I could not believe that my mom was willing to do this but she did. As I have mentioned in the past my mom would be an elder if she were a man. She is very knowlegeable in history as well as church history and very sharp on the old testaments. The first thing my mom threw in my face was where in the 120 year history have any JW leader or JW president stated that JW's are prophets? She argued that no apostate can show her where JW's have said "We are inspired prophets and we can predict the future without error". She pulled out some old Watchtowers from Russell and Rutherford's time showing me where Russell and Rutherford both said we are "not prophets" and our magazines are not "error-free" so my mom's argument sweeps all of the false prophecies under the carpet because both Russell and Rutherford claim they are not prophets. I pulled out the book The nation shall know that I am Jehovah and before I could turn to the page one of the elders said "before you get to the page where we once said that not a person but a small body of footstep followers known as JW's made up the prophet" the elder said that JW's never claimed to be prophets but acted as prophets in that they delivered a message of coming destruction from Jehovah the elder said there is a "big" difference in acting as a prophet and claiming to be a prophet. He gave me an analogy of a nurse who is trapped in a elevator with a pregnant woman about to give birth and a doctor is on the phone with the nurse giving her instructions on how to deliver the baby. Would it be wrong if afterwards the nurse told all of her friends that she acted as a doctor to deliver the baby? Or would it be wrong if the nurse later said she was a doctor? The elder asked me is there a difference here? I told him that is a good analogy. My mom also argued that JW's have never said "thus said the lord that 1975" the world is coming to an end and this is Jehovah's prophecy we are telling you". My mom feels that if JW's had said these are the words of Jehovah or Jesus that such and such is going to happen in (whatever year) then JW's would be false prophets according to Deut 18:20-22. She lumps it all together as "wrong expectations" because if a person never claims to be a prophet than they cannot be accused of being a false prophet. Corncerning the "generation of 1914" being alive when Armaggeddon comes my mom feels that just because JW's made an adjustment in teaching does not mean it is a wrong doctrine. She feels that they clarified some minor point and made it more clearer but the 1914 is still scriptural. She gave me the example of the Jews and circumcision. Many Jewish Christians had trouble with the circumcision doctrine but my mom said were they false teachers or did Jehovah still use them when they made the change in doctrine? This went on for hour after hour and finally I got up and told my mom I love her but she is too far gone and only Jehovah and Jesus can help her see the errors of the WTS and as I was leaving one of the elders said that I am the evil slave apostate and my mom is serving Jehovah and Jesus and she should cut me off completely and my mom told me that unless I come back to JW's she will have nothing more to do with me and I told her goodbye and I left. When I got home I felt like crap and just could not stop crying. Did I do the right thing?
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Did you believe that the "Pope" was infalliable when you were Catholic?
by booker-t inmy roman catholic aunt has been a "devout" catholic for over 30 years and when the pope recently became ill she told me that god would not allow the pope to die but would take him directly to heaven because the pope is sinless.
i am not familar with catholic doctrines so i was caught off guard with my aunt but for any posters out there that were devout catholics like my aunt do catholics really believe that the pope is without sin and cannot die?
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booker-t
My Roman Catholic Aunt has been a "devout" Catholic for over 30 years and when the Pope recently became ill she told me that God would not allow the Pope to die but would take him directly to heaven because the Pope is sinless. I am not familar with Catholic doctrines so I was caught off guard with my aunt but for any posters out there that were devout Catholics like my aunt do Catholics really believe that the Pope is without sin and cannot die?
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Do you feel that "all" Christian denomnations should be "abolished"?
by booker-t ini ask this question because my "atheist" friend the other day told me that he is much mentally free now since he left christianity.
he told me that "all" christians that he comes into contact with or knows from his religious lifetime are "miserable" and that the govt should abolish all christian groups for the sake of perserving the mental health of the people.
christians never are satisfied with their lives because they are trying to measure up to "jesus" and the apostles and will never measure up which causes many nervous breakdowns among religious people of all christian groups not just jw or mormons but many born-agains have mental breakdown as well.
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booker-t
I ask this question because my "atheist" friend the other day told me that he is much mentally free now since he left christianity. He told me that "all" christians that he comes into contact with or knows from his religious lifetime are "miserable" and that the Govt should abolish all christian groups for the sake of perserving the mental health of the people. Christians never are satisfied with their lives because they are trying to measure up to "Jesus" and the Apostles and will never measure up which causes many nervous breakdowns among religious people of all christian groups not just JW or Mormons but many born-agains have mental breakdown as well. Alot of the stuff we see posted on this ex-jw website can be said of born-again christian churches. To name a few examples my friend brought up were: why can't you just go to a christian church without the minister trying to force you to give money all the time? Some people can barely pay their rent but the minister insist for people to stuff the collection plates every Sunday. Where in the bible do we see Jesus doing this? Most of the minister of today's churches drive around in fancy cars and live in big homes. Do you ever see a minister or pastor arriving to church on the bus? The minister would probably look down at busriders and make them feel that they are not serving God enough or else they would have a car. My friend said that he went to a church one Sunday in Jeans and a shirt and the Pastor complained to him that he was being disrespectful for not having on a Sunday suit. Where in the bible does Jesus command people to come dress to impress like so many churches and religions today. People are looked down upon if they come to church casually dressed or if women come to church in pants. Do born-agains really believe that God will send a woman to hell for wearing "pants" to church? Also my friend brought up the issue of homosexuals. He made the point that Christians are always condemning gays and lesbians to hell but would God really want a gay person to "act" straight just to get to heaven? Wouldn't this be a deception on the gay person's part and what about the spouse of the "straight" acting gay person wouldn't this bring heartace and problems for the straight spouse of a gay or lesbian? I think that Jehovah and Jesus would be sickened by this deception of a gay or lesbian trying to be straight for the church. So my friend feels that Christian denominations are so full of contradictions that they should be banned all together. The world would be a better place without judgemental christians and JW's according to my friend what do you think of this and what can I tell him?
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Would Michael Jackson be in all this legal trouble if he stayed a JW?
by booker-t inas you posters know my mom has been a "devout" jw for over 40 years and just won't bend when it comes to the faults of the wts.
i have talked until i was blue in the face for over 10 years since da'd myself in 1993 but just can't crack my mom.
well she made another ridiculous comment to me the other day in her attempts to get me "reinstated" back as a jw.
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booker-t
As you posters know my mom has been a "devout" JW for over 40 years and just won't bend when it comes to the faults of the WTS. I have talked until I was blue in the face for over 10 years since DA'd myself in 1993 but just can't crack my mom. Well she made another ridiculous comment to me the other day in her attempts to get me "reinstated" back as a JW. She told me that all ex-JW's and apostates have nothing but trouble after trouble in their lives when they leave JW's. She said that Michael Jackson should have stayed a JW and if he did he would not be in this legal mess he is in now. My mom says it serves him right for leaving Jehovah and the organization. She feels that Jehovah takes away his spirit from ex-jws and they have nothing but trouble. She said that you never hear of Katherine Jackson(Mike's mom) or Rebbie Jackson(Mike's JW sister) having any trouble in life but the DF'd and DA'd Jacksons such as Mike, LaToya, Janet all get into trouble which causes their mother heartache. My mom hopes that Mike will come to his senses and ask the elders to reinstate him before Jehovah destroys him. She said this is a wake up call from Jehovah for Mike to get his life right. And she said in the meantime she will never listen to any of Michael Jackson or Janet Janet songs until they are "reinstated." What do you think of this one posters?
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Are ex-jw's or "apostates" addicted to jw-bashing?
by booker-t inthis might seem like a funny question to ask but my mom told me that "apostates" are addicted to jw-bashing and cannot let it go and have a life.
i asked her what she meant by this statement and she told me that all ex-jw's talk about is the wts and jw's and negative things about the jw's.
she said that we get up thinking about jw-bashing and go to sleep thinking about jw-bashing just like a drug addict.
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booker-t
This might seem like a funny question to ask but my mom told me that "apostates" are addicted to jw-bashing and cannot let it go and have a life. I asked her what she meant by this statement and she told me that all ex-jw's talk about is the WTS and JW's and negative things about the JW's. She said that we get up thinking about jw-bashing and go to sleep thinking about jw-bashing just like a drug addict. She even mad a bet with me that I could not go one week without jw-bashing because she feels that I am addicted to jw-bashing. I must admit I have never thought of it as an addiction. Do you think that ex-jw's are addicted to jw-bashing and can we ever get over it and move on with our lives and not bash the WTS? Do you think that you can go a week without jw-bashing?
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How many ex-jw's that are christians now believe jews are going to hell?
by booker-t inmy born-again christian friend that help me leave the wts is devoted to telling jews that they are going to hell for not believing in jesus christ.
i tell him all the time that i believe that jehovah and jesus going to save jews if their worship is sincere.
he insist that jews and anybody that is not a born-again christian is going to burn in hell for eternity.
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booker-t
My born-again christian friend that help me leave the WTS is devoted to telling Jews that they are going to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ. I tell him all the time that I believe that Jehovah and Jesus going to save Jews if their worship is sincere. He insist that Jews and anybody that is not a born-again Christian is going to burn in hell for eternity. This is why born-agains turn me off sometimes because they tend to be so judgemental against others that don't believe the way they do. Ex-jw's that are born-agains tend to be worse in my opinion. You would think after leaving the WTS and all of that hate they would be alittle more accepting of others but they do the same thing that the WTS does to its members they teach intolerance. How many posters out there really believe that Jehovah is going to be another Hitler and torture and burn Jewish people or non-christians in the lake of fire?
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Is there a difference between a "wrong expectation" and a "false prophecy"?
by booker-t inas many of you posters know by now that my mom has been a devout jw for 40 years and just cannot accept the fact that i am no longer a jw and feel that i am being deceived by apostates and will be destroyed at armaggeddon.
well the other day we had another knock down debate about "false prophecies" and the wts.
my mom insist that the wts are not false prophets but merely had many "wrong expectations" the same as other bible writers and disciples of christ.
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booker-t
As many of you posters know by now that my mom has been a devout JW for 40 years and just cannot accept the fact that I am no longer a JW and feel that I am being deceived by apostates and will be destroyed at Armaggeddon. Well the other day we had another knock down debate about "false prophecies" and the WTS. My mom insist that the WTS are not false prophets but merely had many "wrong expectations" the same as other bible writers and disciples of Christ. Her new agrument is that a person can be under Jehovah's holy spirit and still make an "error in understanding" as the WTS has done on many occasions. She brought up the example of Nathan the Prophet who was a prophet of Jehovah and he gave David some wrong information regarding the building of the temple. Jehovah told Nathan he was wrong that he did not want David to build the temple and Nathan corrected the error when Jehovah brought it to his attention. My mom argues that a prophet of God can still make errors even though they are inspired by Jehovah and that Jehovah did not reject Nathan but continued to use him even though he gave erroneous info to David. She is comparing the WTS many errors to Nathan the Prophet. I must admit my mom caught me off guard with this one and had me at a lost for words. She also argued that Peter gave erroneous info concerning someone that was going to die in John 20:20-21. She said that Peter misunderstood Jesus' words and jumped to the wrong conclusion and thought that the Apostle John was going to die. Peter went around telling the other disciples that John was going to die because Jesus said it. My mom's point here was that Peter must have said "thus saith the lord" in his error and would have been classified as a "false prophet" according to Deut 18:20-22. My mom argued that Jehovah and Jesus still used Peter even though he gave a false prediction. Another argument my mom brought up was that Agabus a Christian prophet in Paul's day predicted a worldwide famine that was to hit the whole inhabitide earth(Acts 11:27,28) My mom argued that there has never been a worldwide famine in all of history after Agabus made this prediction ( around 40 C.E) so again she feels that a prophet of Jehovah made an error in his predictions and understandings. She argued that Paul gave the impression that Jesus' second coming was to appear in Paul's generation by the way Paul wrote to the Thesselonians. And of course my mom brought up the JW's favorite text at Jonah 4 and argued that Jonah said 40 days not maybe in 40 days or Jehovah will change his mind if the people repent but that Jonah said "in 40 days". My mom feels that born-agains change things when it proves them wrong and born-agains will have to condemn Peter, Paul, Agabus, Jonah and Nathan all as false prophets if they want to condemn JW's as false prophets. I left my mom's house in a total daze. I need help posters out there for our next encounter next week. I truly believe if my mom was a man she would be a JW elder she is very sharp when it comes to the bible and she loves history.