Posts by Gopher

11

Society to Publishers: Shut Up!

by metatron in

jw
friends

latest propaganda from the borg (wt.sept 1, 2001, pg.15).

"suppose, though, that we personally have been the.

victim of a perceived injustice.

Gopher

Thanks for getting this little 'diamond in the rough' out and exposed for public view, Metatron.

So they give only 2 options to ones who have suffered an injustice: (1) Discuss the matter with anyone who listen, (that is, blab it to the whole congregation), or (2)pray about it, keep silent, wait for justice to magically appear from heaven.

Isn't there a third option here, which would be talking to a confidential friend, pouring out your concerns, or else if the matter is very serious (legal, sexual abuse) to pursue things with the proper authorities?

This kind of "logic" in the literature just burns me up. And it seems to place blame on one who comes forward to report an injustice. (I'm going to stop now before my monitor goes up in flames!!)

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

23

JW Jokes...

by philo in

jw
friends

how many jws does it take to change a lightbulb?

one, but mature christians will wait for the new system .

how many elders...?.

Gopher

What do you get if you cross a JW with an agnostic?

Someone who knocks on your door for no apparent reason. (Groan)

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

4

Best Advice I NEVER Heeded....

by BoozeRunner in

jw
friends

having been "born" into the wts, my dad, of course, tried to get me to focus on a "future" in the borg.. when i was choosing a high school to attend, i settled on the new york school of printing, mainly because i had a few jw friends who were attending, and we grew up together.. when i made this choice, my dad suggested that if i wanted to learn about printing, i should set bethel as my goal after school.. i remember his words clearly, "you will learn all you need to know about printing @ bethel", implying that the wts were the real experts.. how happy i am that i never heeded that advice.

as i see it, i would have learned how to print propaganda and live @ slave wages.. dont get me wrong, i do print propaganda, but i make a pretty good living at it.

everyone who prints is trying to sell somethng, lol, but why should i live as a pauper selling someone else's crap.. so, any examples of wts career "advice" that you didn't heed, even while a faithful borg drone?.

Gopher

When getting close to high school graduation, I was considering trade school. The circuit overseer & his wife advised me "put first the Kingdom". If you read between the lines, that would mean pioneer now and think about a career later. (This was back in 1979.)

I went to computer programming school, and have made a nice living as a professional programmer the last 21 years.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

6

Why do JWs still celebrate Memorial

by Theo Cratz in

jw
friends

it has always puzzled me why jehovah's witnesses still celebrate the memorial.

after all if it says in 1 corinthians 11:26.

"for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the lord's death till he returns".

Gopher

Theo,

Welcome to the board!!

I talked about this with an elder one time. It seems like they weasel out by using the alternate meaning of "return". That is, he hasn't returned with all his angels to bring God's judgment on all us evil ones!

Yes, he returned in one sense in 1914, but the JW's weasel out by saying he hasn't returned in the SECOND sense.

Besides, how could they give up their greatest annual recruiting meeting?

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

9

nyc priest reveals confession

by orbison in

jw
friends

interesting, a nyc priest has revealed a confession re:murder which has allowed the courts to appeal the outcome,,,all i can find at the moment,,,just happened today.

w

Gopher

ZazuWitts,

Here's a link to the NY Times article you mentioned.

* http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/17/nyregion/17PRIE.html?searchpv=day01

Here's a key quote from the article.

Before he stepped onto the witness stand, the Roman Catholic priest's credibility was attacked by Bronx prosecutors, who said Father Towle would be violating church law by disclosing the conversation. The Archdiocese of New York, however, backed Father Towle yesterday and said his actions were appropriate.

The killer died in 1997, but two innocent people are in prison for the killing. So the confession to this Catholic priest is instrumental in efforts to set the 2 non-killers free.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

32

Comparison of Mormonism and JWism

by alex in

jw
friends

i'm thinking that the mind-control games are very very very very much the same between mormonism and jwism.

i've lurked here for a while and thought i'd introduce myself.

my name is alex and i'm an unbelieving mormon who lives in utah.

Gopher

Alex,

Here's a link to biographical information about the Governing Body. There has been a reorganization in the last year, resulting in the Governing Body losing almost all their power. It's a little difficult for me to explain, maybe someone else can explain it better. Anyhow, here's the link: * http://geocities.com/osarsif/gb.htm

I don't have time right now to answer all your questions, but I'll take on your questions about the congregations. They are simply called congregations, and the buildings where JW's gather are Kingdom Halls. Each congregation has a body of elders. New elders are appointed after being recommended by the local body of elders in conjunction with the travelling (circuit) overseer. The organization tries to keep the congregations under 150 members in size. Of course there are many small-town congregations with as few as 20 members.

I believe what you say about Mormons being good people. I found my visit to Salt Lake City very pleasant. Some aspects of the Mormon doctrine have been scrutinized and criticized in Watchtower literature, so we have had some exposure to some aspects of LDS doctrine.

You expressed the idea that rejecting one's former faith leads to anxiety about whether God approves of you or not. This is something a lot of us have had to deal with upon leaving JW's as well. The indoctrination and fear-based approaches are similar between the two groups. After a while many of us have come to the realization that if there is a God, he would not be so unreasonable as to force us to believe a bunch of nonsense or else condemn us! It's better to remove oneself from the nonsense, and then sometimes one's relationship with God (if they choose to cultivate one) is even better than before.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

32

Comparison of Mormonism and JWism

by alex in

jw
friends

i'm thinking that the mind-control games are very very very very much the same between mormonism and jwism.

i've lurked here for a while and thought i'd introduce myself.

my name is alex and i'm an unbelieving mormon who lives in utah.

Gopher

Alex,

Hello and thanks for posting. My only exposure to Mormons was when I went to a Witness convention held in Salt Lake City in 1974. Our family took a tour of the Mormon tabernacle, I can't remember why. But I do remember how unusually friendly people were as we walked through the city.

I was, you could say, born into the JW organization, and left last year at age 39. I thought it was the "only true way" to God. Our exposure to other belief systems was always in a negative context.

To answer some of your questions: What is the Borg? Bethel? GB? CO? DC? DFed? etc.

The Borg is the nickname we "outsiders" give to the organization of the Watch Tower Society, headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. Borg = Brooklyn org.

Bethel = Any of the many branch offices around the world where volunteers live to support the printing work and the oversight of the work JW's do in various places around the world. There are slightly over 100 branch offices of the WTS worldwide.

GB = The Governing Body, the supreme decision-making council of Jehovah's Witnesses.

CO = Circuit Overseer, a travelling representative of the WTS whose area usually encompasses about 20 congregations. They visit each congregation about twice per year to share in the door to door ministry with the locals, to give talks, to help with congregational matters, and to make sure the local congregation is doing things the way the central WTS wants them to.

DC = District Convention. Held once per year in hundreds of locations around the globe, usually in the summertime, this 3-day congress of the Witnesses is a long set of talks, demonstrations, skits, singing. Through the convention, the organization tries to instruct and encourage the JW's.

DF = Disfellowshipping, the JW way of excommunication. If "serious" wrongdoing is reported to the elders, a committee of 3 elders will meet in secret with the individual to try to determine the wrongdoing and to try to set the sinner straight, or so they say. It can be for violating Bible law, or for having or discussing doubts about JW doctrine. The DF'ing penalty is very harsh, for every JW is expected to shun the disfellowshipped one. Even close family will treat the DF'd one quite differently. If a baptized JW no longer wants to be a Witness, they can disassociate (DA) themselves by writing a letter to the body of elders in their congregation.

Hope some of this helps. There is a lot to know about this group and their rules and regulations.

Feel free to post more, ask more questions. Welcome to our board.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

1

Watching the Wheels

by Moxy in

jw
friends

people say i'm crazy doing what i'm doing.

well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin.

well they look at me kind of strange.

Gopher

Hi Moxy,

Thanks for posting that John Lennon classic.

Sounds like people are objecting to your leaving the Borg! How many of us have heard "surely you're not happy now....you no longer play our game"? And "you're no longer on the ball".

We've graduated from the proverbial "merry go round". This is a good song for many folks on our board!

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

58

My god!

by mommy in

jw
friends

i just posted a reply to shelby aka aguest on another thread.

i can say it was the most emotional post of my life here at jw.com.

i don't want it lost.

Gopher

Yadirf,

Farkel's reasoning makes sense to me, and I'm still a Bible-lover. Farkel's use of words doesn't sway my thought, it's the reasoning itself.

Yadirf, have you read Genesis 18 lately? If Jehovah knew what was right, why did he need to be coaxed into doing it? Answer that question.

P.S., you too use fancy words like "Sheol" and "stupor". So size of vocabulary is not the issue, if you expect readers to understand those words why shouldn't they be able to discern the meaning of "paltry" and "fiat"?

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)

14

Memorial Attendance Figures 2001

by gsark in

jw
friends

at the dc this weekend, they released memorial attendance figures for the us.

funny thing.

2001 2, 163, 602 (announced at dc, if i wrote tham down correctly).

Gopher

Hi Gsark,

If your 2001 attendance figure is correct, there sure isn't much growth happening, eh?

Usually the increase in Memorial attendance would be more tied to the growth in the number of Bible Studies (than to the growth in publishers). But taking your figures as they are, there was an increase of about 10,000 in Memorial attendance in the year 2001.

Now out of the 2.15 million attenders in 2000, we can assume that at least 1% died in the past year, so subtract 21,500 from 2.15 million and you'd get 2,128,500 who attended the Memorial in 2000 who would still be alive in 2001 and have a chance to attend. Then add to that 2,128,500 the 30,000 newly baptized, and you reach 2,158,800, which is within about 5,000 of the 2001 Memorial attendance figure.

So they must be having trouble starting new Bible studies to generate any increase in Memorial attendance.

GopherEven if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
Will Rogers (1879-1935)