Posts by Grunt

31

Pedophilia, slander, the process, culpability

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

1. jane doe reports her suspicion to elders that her jw husband is sexually molesting their two daughters.

2. jw elders initiate an investigation.. 3. suspect husband denies the crime.. 4. children do not corroborate the accusation.

5. medical examiners do not offer any corroboration of the accusation.

Grunt

Thanks for all the great posts. I really appreciate the breakdown into language I can understand of just what the WT situation is in regards to their culpability through the elders as agents of the WTS. I have to admit to picturing large black fins cutting through the water with gaping jaws ready to rip the financial limbs from this cult. Money has always been a big part of what they were about. It is only fitting that the money they have made off their free slave labor working under vows of poverty, should be spread among another group of similar morals who have to pay their help, the Lawyers of America. Funny that I should see them as heroes for a change, especially in a child molestation case or cases.

By the way, in an exchange with another supposed JW, he referred to me as an "anti-JW" and now this guy says:

"And some bigshot corporate computer geek like yourself has lots of money, and could afford to help out a fellow "anti-JW" who has fell on hard times."

Now personally, while I view the title of apostate as in error given the facts of the WT history and views, still, I know what the badge means to the average Witness, instilling horror laced with fear, and I wear it with pride. They should fear anyone who knows the facts on their cult, what they have done to so many innocent people is horrible and I like to give back a little. So, what is this "Anti-JW" thing, just a recent title given on the spur of the moment or is it spun from the web in Brooklyn? It fits, I don't mind wearing it, as long as it also has the same connotations of DEMONIZATION in the minds of the cult-associated that "APOSTATE" has.

23

Compassion For Those Who Remain Silent

by Kismet in

jw
friends

fellow jw-com'ers:.

as excited as we are by the events announced by silent lambs and upcoming media attention, i would like to ask people to remember the many silent lambs who simply cannot speak or have not yet found their voice.. these victims should not be made to feel as second class people for their decision to remain silent.

i will not go into all the possible reasons why these victims remain silent.

Grunt

In the New York Times online was this article. Maybe the rules are being changed somewhat. Though the Catholic Church still says this does not affect the confessional. You should read the whole article. It grieves me to think of how many have trusted "Godly" men whether Witnesses or others, and had that trust betrayed.
I wonder if the congressional group involved here is aware of some of the latest Watch Tower cover-ups and if they should or could be made aware of it?

Grunt

Catholic Church to Support Clergy Reporting Child Sexual Abuse

By FOX BUTTERFIELD

OSTON, Mass., Aug. 7 — The Catholic church here announced today that it will support a bill in the Massachusetts legislature that would add priests and other clergy to the list of people who must report suspected child sexual abuse to the authorities.

The church has been under mounting public pressure since a disclosure that Cardinal Bernard F. Law had transferred a priest accused of child molestation to other parishes where the priest was later charged with molesting dozens more

31

Flowers For Erica

by silentlambs in

i received the suggestion below in an email and thought it might be a nice gesture.

if you would like to send flowers or cards of support to the courthouse the address is:.

adams county courthouse.

Grunt

Juicy,
Thanks a lot for the information. Maybe some of the sincere Witnesses there found the whole thing a little sickening. I hope so. Maybe in time it will begin to work on their consciences a little. If you have been following some of the other threads you know that in other cases the elders involved took legal loopholes to keep from testifying against child molesters. While this can and does happen in every religion of any size, I guess, it is in how the people react to it that you see their real colors. Do they show love and compassion or just victimize the innocent some more. The Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization have demonstrated more than once that it is not the person who is injured that they worry about, it is their own vanity, ego, whatever you want to call it. They would and do in fact sell their families down the river rather than face facts, or bad press. I am glad to hear this site comforts Erica. Given the mixed posts you find on this board that speaks to her own maturity and understanding. Please overlook those who childishly insult others and those who show a lack of appreciation for what some victims have been through. We are all at different levels in our experience, our withdrawal from a controlling cult, and in our own personal depth. It takes depth, to have real empathy. Sometimes you need to have suffered pain, to appreciate the suffering of others. There are many here who have suffered greatly from the same source, and who are still suffering from that source. I believe there are many lurkers here who benefit from knowing just what has really gone on in cases like Erica's. As I have said before, I wish Erica all the best, she has earned it with her courage.

22

A Tasty Lil Bit O' Gossip.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

here's a picture of the late sir john fieldhouse during his time as an admiral in the royal navy.

he later became first sea lord and was in charge of operations during the falklands war when england and argentina slugged it out in the south atlantic back in '82.

his wife shown here is lady fieldhouse - known to her friends as midge - who is a very active jehovahs witness residing in lee on solent, near portsmouth.

Grunt

My impression of the war was that:

The Argentine Airforce were the only bright spots for Argentina. Sadly, most of these heroes died and left a country that needed them.
Other than the airforce it was a pretty embarassing deal for Argentina.

The British proved again that they were not to be underestimated or to be treated with scorn. As stated the dictator did this just to switch attention to the war, but he made a grave error. As for the British, they didn't really want the Islands, and a political deal could have been made over time.

The U.S. was put in a hard spot. We really wanted them to shake hands and make a deal. We had to choose between a country we considered an ally in this hemisphere and England. Considering the English are the only ones ever to have taken our capital and BURNED IT! you might be surprised that we chose England. Over the years and in other situations I imagine a lot of people have been surprised that England has supported us and vice versa. Anyway, we gave them refueling capability on their trip down and sat. recon. which the Argentinans deeply resented if I remember right. It hurt our relations with not only Argentina but other countries in the Americas. They could see where our true loyalties lay.

One good thing for the the US was information on the light fast ships melting temprerature, the importance of cruise type missles and defense against them and air strategy against a determined and courageous foe. All paid for with blood in a war that needn't have happened. Just my view as I remember it.

15

Friends - Too Little, Too Late?

by troubled in

jw
friends

i posted this onto a previous thread, but wanted to start it on a new one as well.

as jws, we lack the "social outlet" all humans need, to have true friends one can speak openly and honestly with and not be afraid of judgmentalism.

what i've seen firsthand is that the "nucleus" of the congregation often has this need filled: elders, ms's, pioneers, and their families often do things together.

Grunt

I am always impressed with the people on this board. If you want good, honest advice this is the spot. As usual, I agree with all that has been said. I am glad you are not being made a part of the congregation, for your sakes. It may lessen their hold on you and help keep you from spreading more lies. It is as you said, they aren't real friends anyway so why try and cultivate them? Get some real friends. As a witness, there is a good chance you have left some real friends and relatives by the wayside. They would probably be happy to have you back and out of the cult.
As for the visit with the elders, why do it? You probably know more about what they believe than they do. You know all they have to offer and it has fallen short of what you need. Unless you are prepared to start doing those things that make you acceptable, why meet? Unless you want to try and open their eyes a little. If you have no relatives to forfeit then by all means prepare, pick your subjects (my particular favorite is the mediatorship) and know their side and yours, memorize a few scriptures, have your Watch Tower quotes ready and let them into the trap. Maybe you can put a crack in that brick wall the TOWER has surrounded them with and though they wouldn't say it or let it show you can deliver a powerful blow. Odds are they will shrug it off, but this board is full of ex-Witnesses who didn't. It took a little time, but here we are, and all of us had something that started us out of the cult.
You don't owe them anything. Just the opposite. You have given and have lost a lot. Protect what yourselves and what family you have left and leave in the manner of your own choosing. I wish you all the best.

5

Making THEM Face FACTS

by Grunt in

jw
friends

i am going to make a short, simple fact sheet to leave in places where jehovah's witnesses tend to leave magazines or frequent (hmmm, maybe a few in the door of the kingdom hall?

) i would like to tell the general public things about the witnesses and at the same time tell the witnesses who read it a few things that they don't know or understand either and help them to see themselves as others see them.

i am thinking about four or five topics with a few sentences and maybe a watch tower quote for each for shock effect to the witnesses.

Grunt

Thanks for the responses. I didn't intend to put them up on the wall or anything. Just stick them in a few magazines of any type, especially Watch Towers and Awakes. I know it is all small potatoes, but there really are a lot of us, and we can make a big difference. We already have in a lot of ways I think. I will continue to talk to every Witness I can and will put out a few sheets and if nothing happens, I'm not out much. I do detest the Organization but I feel sorrow and compassion for the poor drones. I want to help them and they don't want to be helped so it takes a little thinking. Nothing a farm boy isn't used to. Or a parent. I am still in favor of getting a magnetic sign for my car but my wife would be a little embarassed I think, and I would feel like a hypocrite taking it off before I went to see my parents. Something kind of like what the Marines used to have, "Ask an Ex-Marine about the Corps" only substitute JW. Who would know better, right?

8

Watchtower accepting credit cards ?

by BERNARD in

jw
friends

i was trolling around on the great crowd board of jehovah.

witnesses and one mention about a credit card machine being.

installed in an asssembly hall of jehovah witness.

Grunt

Maybe they are "cheap" because they don't have a real job. My daughter, valedictorian, four years of college and her career? Ten years of odd jobs. The first ones paid well but as she has become more spiritually mature they have deteriorated. She babysits two witness kids and pioneers. She can take them out with her. In about ten years, it will all begin to come home to her. No kids, no career, no benefits, a self-alienated family, some psuedo-friends, lots of meetings and the glorious hope that the world will soon come crashing down. wow.

5

Making THEM Face FACTS

by Grunt in

jw
friends

i am going to make a short, simple fact sheet to leave in places where jehovah's witnesses tend to leave magazines or frequent (hmmm, maybe a few in the door of the kingdom hall?

) i would like to tell the general public things about the witnesses and at the same time tell the witnesses who read it a few things that they don't know or understand either and help them to see themselves as others see them.

i am thinking about four or five topics with a few sentences and maybe a watch tower quote for each for shock effect to the witnesses.

Grunt

I am going to make a short, simple fact sheet to leave in places where Jehovah's Witnesses tend to leave magazines or frequent (hmmm, maybe a few in the door of the Kingdom Hall?) I would like to tell the general public things about the Witnesses and at the same time tell the Witnesses who read it a few things that they don't know or understand either and help them to see themselves as others see them. I am thinking about four or five topics with a few sentences and maybe a Watch Tower quote for each for shock effect to the Witnesses. I was thinking of bold face letters at the top saying, What You Need to Know About Jehovah's Witnesses, then putting a bold sentence/question and a small cap answer. I might do main thoughts in red, as in the Think Again in the first one. These are some of the bold sentence captions I was thinking of:

Think you have a friend who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, THINK AGAIN.

Jehovah's Witnesses and the Spiritual Clock. When They Talk to You, you are just discussing the bible, they are Counting Time.

Jehovah's Witnesses = Tax Dodgers, the story behind the "Donation Arrangement."

Whey Aren't They FREE in AFRICA?

"Sorry Mom, You Know I Don't Want to SEE YOU or TALK to YOU...CLICK" Jehovah's Witnesses and how they SHUN FAMILY.

Jehovah's Witnesses and Blood, Take (fractions) but don't Give.

Jehovah's Witnesses - Where's the love? SHOW ME THE LOVE

Life Ever Lasting - non-Witnesses need not apply.

Jehovah's Witnesses and Judging Each Other, it isn't enough to just SHUN those who have left.

The Kingdom Hall Caste System.

You = SATAN'S MINION. Your CHURCH = SATAN'S EMPIRE? Just ask a Jehovah's Witness.

NO voting, NO blood, NO armed forces, NO college, No sports, NO dating except JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

I would appreciate your input. I am going to start putting a few of these sheets out next Sat. morning or Sunday afternoon. I hope to encounter some Witnesses as I do it, but I know the odds are against it. We could exchange publications! At the end of our conversation of course.

22

"Why do some of you suck so bad....

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

...at just letting go of things?

" i asked myself.. but then i thought, "maybe that's why they are out and free; they wouldn't just 'let go' of what was bugging them", and i got a funny warm feeling all over about those people for just a minute.

i'm sure it will pass

Grunt

Hello Cap'n,
A belated Happy Birthday! And a personal question, are you still dating the elementary teacher? I hope so. How is your son doing? Well, I hope. Sorry for the personal message but just wanted to say HI. Old Atticus would send his greetings too, I'm sure. He is in the process of quiting/selling his janitorial business and is going to law school now at the U. of Alabama. He got me all fired up against the Tower and then he cooled off and disengaged. Guess he figured he had found a replacement!
In regards to this post, I do think it takes a certain type of person to stand up to any powerful authority figure. Or even a criminal figure that can threaten you with your wife, husband, kids, parents and so on. Maybe it is that same quality that makes them abrasive sometimes. I don't know. I do know that I don't want to argue with anyone on this board, we all have a common foe, and yet find myself sometimes insulting people. I hate that. I never do it first and shouldn't respond. I like the posts with an informative slant like the ones recently on the twins exchanging blood in the womb and how the Borg knew and knows it yet twists the info. to their own purposes or hides it.
When it comes to insults though, my favorite was when a Lady of Distinction and Temper at H20 told old Comf he was "A waste of bandwidth." I think you quoted her is how I heard it Comf.

10

JW pictures

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

um i just found that site watchtower observer by kent.

first off i thought it was really great, all the info there and so easy to to find.

but when i got to the subliminal images part.

Grunt

I haven't looked at those pictures in quite a while and will have to go back to see them. But, I do remember one issue of the Watch Tower that had either Adam's or Eve's hair in the shape of a lion, no big religious message, just a big lion head with mane. It was far to detailed to have just been a mistake. I don't look for those patterns, and don't notice them usually, but my brother pointed it out to me at the time and I believe it was put there as some kind of prank by an artist. I remember in psych 101 seeing the pictures of the wine glass and it could be seen as two faces kissing also. I imagine those guys doing the art work get pretty bored with all the phoney paradise scenes, get fed up with the hypocrisy of Bethel and enjoy playing a trick. I guess they think they are just too slick to get caught at it or else they didn't care.