The whole Memorial is a sham. The only ones invited to the first one were the apostles, then later those who received gifts of Holy Spirit. There were no "observers" who didn't partake. Even if JWs are right that only the "little flock" are supposed to eat and drink the meal, isn't it party crashing to have over 1000 people for every partaker? Add to that, it's held on the wrong day and it's just laughable. Everyone gather the day before Passover while claiming it's Passover to listen to a dry infomercial for JWs and make a big deal about ritualistically passing communion around the room only to reject it. That screams cult, to me.
WontLeave
JoinedPosts by WontLeave
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46
Partaker Number To Be Eliminated?
by LostGeneration inthe recent wt that has been discussed quite a bit here offers up this quote:.
"we thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.
the governing body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.
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What percentage of assmbly experiences are total fabrication?
by NoRegrets inwhen i was in 4th grade, i ended up in a situation involving minor school politics.
they had developed a "student council" which did little more than sell pencils at lunch time for fundraisers.
anyway, i was appointed by the teacher and didn't think much of it as an 8-9 year old.
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WontLeave
WT experiences are to reality what Catholicism is to the Bible. Many of them are even beyond "inspired by actual events" and into "based on characters from...", like when a movie franchise becomes so cheesy the original author wants nothing to do with it anymore, but the production company keeps writing more and more ridiculous garbage with the same characters.
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Free Will and Foreknowledge
by TheUbermensch inhi, i'm a new member that enjoys civil debate, so i thought i'd just throw a topic out there.. if we take the standard, contemporary judeo-christian god (all-knowing, all powerful, and perfectly good in every possible way) and attempt to incorporate free will, we end up with a contradiction.
an all knowing being knows everything that has occured, is occuring and will occur, if otherwise then we can not consider this being to know all.
if god knows all that will happen, then he knows our decisions, as well as the outcomes of those decisions.
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WontLeave
I keep hearing that God is omniscient from churches and preachers. Please, someone show me where God claimed to be omniscient. Knowing from the beginning, the finale isn't the same, since he's going to cause the finale. Knowing whether someone is good or bad isn't the same as knowing their every future act. I know people I can see are good or bad, but that doesn't make me omniscient.
There's a big difference between knowing everything that can be known and knowing everything. Once you make God "magic", you invalidate every argument you can ever make for his existence, because you've dumbed your belief down to the illogical and impossible, going beyond what is written and into the realm of fairy tales. Some would argue the Bible is already there on its own, so why complicate further the task of communicating the message to them?
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How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT
by LanaMich19 ini have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.
for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.
after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.
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WontLeave
Maybe something in here will help:
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"Cheers" question
by reubenfine indoes anybody remember the logic behind why it was wrong to make toasts with drink and say "cheers"?
what was up with that, anyway??
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WontLeave
It's always amazing to me how the WT can ban anything that's ever been used religiously.
I think I remember going to a church that had benches, so perhaps we should ban them.
I know I've seen them use auditoriums, parking lots, sound systems, music, public speaking, literature, Bibles. Should we ban them all, too?
Does nobody in Brooklyn understand that anything can be misused and that's no reflection on the thing itself? What does drinking to false gods have to do with drinking to friends?
During a birthday celebration, a righteous man's head was chopped off. What's the problem here? Chopping off innocent people's heads? Heavens no! It's the birthday.
I can't count how many scriptures they twist completely out of context and gather something totally contrary to the text. In their minds, Acts shows how Paul was at the beck and call of some first-century governing body called the "Jerusalem Council", he went to them with his tail between his legs to beg for their wisdom, humbly accepted their decisions, and they ordered him around. Anyone with a firing synapse can see that's not what happened at all.
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JW at work hitting on me!! (for real)
by Free!! inon another thread i mentioned i met some jws at work within the past 2 months.
well, 2 of them became particularly interested and getting to know me (a lady and a guy) the lady is really nice, and the only reason i know she is a jw is because she mentioned something about no b-days or christmas and that was it... she has not tried to preach to me or anything.... .
on the other hand... this young guy, well he is making sure he becomes my friend, asked me to be my fb friend and messages me everyday at work or on fb... now the funny thing is he told me he is a jw and about 3 times already he had suggested i read my bible (whenever i post status about being bored or unable to concentrate on homework), well yesterday he sent me a message that said "i would like to talk to you tonite, maybe we can hit it up" my reaction was .
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WontLeave
It must be nice not to need two hands.
...but I digress...
JWs tend to be extremely socially awkward and clueless. The COBE at my Hall actually warned from the platform against saying "hook up" when talking about meeting someone later, because (seems he'd just heard somewhere) "hook up" means "have sex". Obviously, when you're telling your buddy you'll hook up with him later to bowl a few frames and have some beer, you're not talking about sex. But, these people have no clue how to interact with others except to shove a cult magazine in their faces or talk about how wonderful the last convention was. Don't assume anything, because their signals are all screwed up.
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Uber Dub wants to have dinner....
by outsmartthesystem inok. the good news is that my wife has eased up on the whole "talking it out with the elders" thing.
she now insists that she is doing her"own independent research with unbiased materials" on some subjects.
unbiased?
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WontLeave
Go!
...but have a plan and, if possible, record it. If you don't have a voice recorder, many MP3 players, cell phones, and digital cameras have a voice recorder feature that can record several hours of audio. The psychos, idiots, and loser that make up the congregations of the JWs are their own worst enemies. I wish I'd had a recorder running in the back room, on several occasions. If I'd have known then what I know now about how crazy, ignorant, stupid, and evil they are, I would have. I may still get my chance, since I'm technically still in.
When I first started realizing what was up, my wife didn't want to hear about it. It made her angry and sad that she was stuck with "an apostate". The walls went up, the denial started. Fortunately for me, she was in denial mainly because she'd never paid attention. Little by little, she started actually reading what the speakers, WT literature, and JW comments said and realizing everything I was saying was actually true. Plus she already had some of her own pet peeves and I hit one square on the head with a WT article she'd never seen or dreamed possible; I truly believe that's what did it. The WT is the best "apostate" literature written.
I encountered the JW defenses to a lesser degree than most, so bombarding with truth worked in my case. If someone's entire existence hangs on the WBTS, then you might need to try a different tactic. I believe, if you can get a JW (or any cult member) reeling you in because you've gone too far, in their minds, you've got them thinking and playing the part of the reasonable one. Then, just sit back and wait for them to start putting the pieces together on their own. Right now, you're the voice of reason, so turn the tables.
Let your wife know in advance that you intend to bait him, so she can see first-hand how nutty he is. It may leave a sour taste in your mouth, but try to out-JW him. Feign outright idolatry to the Governing Body, glorify the Spirit-inspired Watchtower's absolute and indisputable truths, if invited to pray then thank the Creator of the universe for writing the new song book. Just go so far out in left field with it that only an absolute mental case could keep up. Then, watch him do it. I've tossed around the idea of drawing attention to the insanity by becoming a caricature of their actions. Rather than a JW putting up their defenses, they might actually think how bonkers it really is.
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DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THIS?
by lola-rabbit indose anyone remember this issue?
i remember i was 18 when i read this, being a youth myself i put myself in their shoes and i was so sad and angry.
their short lives were stolen.
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WontLeave
I reference this magazine in my paper Do Christians Have Human Leaders? as evidence that JWs worship the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as a god. One way they do this, is through their sacrifice to it; in this case, human sacrifice.
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Would the holy spirit appoint an elder this stupid? Not likely!
by venusinfauxfurs inyou learn something new in the kingdom hall every week.... .
i told an elder that i'm not going out in field service yet but god knows why that is and it's between him and i (translation: jehovahs witnesses are not the truth and it's a colossal waste of time) and i assume the elder took it to mean i want to do it but can't for some reason because he said "jehovah doesn't know that though.
he has to see you out there in field service to know that you're serious.
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WontLeave
@ NeonMadman, et al
If God really knew our future actions, then they can be calculated. If they can be calculated, then we are just acting out a very complicated program. If we are simply acting out a program, we can't be held responsible for our actions, since they are hard-wired into us and inescapable. Foreknowledge indicates preordination or, at the very least, inate traits outside of our control. Either way, whatever we do, it's what we were going to do and any ideas of free will are simply an illusion. Just like a computer's random number generator, where the numbers aren't actually random, but a ridiculously long algorithm to give the illusion of randomness. If we are just complicated robots, we aren't responsible and free will doesn't exist. If we're not, then our future actions can't be fully known.
And if by " timebound", you're implying God exists in all times and has already seen the future first-hand, then that's ridiculous and commenting on such a silly notion would be a waste of time on a baseless delusion. Granted, often religion and baseless delusion go hand-in-hand, but it leads to endless debates about unprovable dogma. Decreeing the nature of God with no basis is the realm of self-appointed Governing Bodies, Magisteriums, false prophets, and others who identify themselves as "God's sole channel of communication".
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Why do Jehovahs Witnesses preach from house to house?
by mankkeli inthis explanation is extracted from the reasoning book, page 205. .
jesus foretold for our day this work: this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
he also instructed his followers: go .
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WontLeave
He advised against going house to house..
This is not true. Not to defend JWs, per se, but as a lover of truth, this argument irritates me. It's as misapplied and misrepresented as the worst example of JW "Bible-based" propaganda. Jesus wasn't telling his followers not to go from house to house preaching. He was telling his followers not to waste time changing their base of operations while they preached in a town. He instructed them to find a home willing to put them up and feed them while they preached in the city and to eat and sleep there until they were ready to move on to the next city. If nobody could be found to house them or accept the message of Jesus, then the disciple was to "shake the dust from his feet" and move on to the next town.
Please, people. Let's not sink to the level of the Watchtower and ascribe false claims to the Bible. There is nothing wrong with knocking on doors, in itself. The problem is, the Society has JWs knocking on doors to keep them busy and to avoid coming off any of their money. They don't even mail magazines anymore. Publishers have become the Society's courier service. Door knocking has nothing to do with getting the message out. Meanwhile, the false prophet Harold Camping, can find millions to spend on advertizing so he can go from totally unheard of to everybody knowing about May 21 (and the embarrassment that followed) within a few months. Also, Mormons are making a huge Internet presence and have been advertizing on TV for decades. But will the Society ever part with a penny? Don't hold your breath. They're stingier than some of the most glaring examples of money-grubbing cults. Even Scientology will spend money to get its message out, but Bethel can't bear the thought of any of their money getting back into the hands of "worldly people".