Pand...whatever does the job..you know? (((hugs)))
LovesDubs
JoinedPosts by LovesDubs
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Crocodile Tears, too little too late
by LovesDubs inmy mother in law is upset that i would leave her...she says she is crying at my loss.
and so, i replied to her: .
"dont be sad...what do you have to be sad about?
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Disfellowshipping Without Judicial Meeting?
by Coqui insorry if i keep coming back to this but i need clarification.. can i be df if i am doing certain activities ie.
birthdays, holidays, attending another church?
i've been away from the borg for two months.
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LovesDubs
They dont even have to call you to label you as disassociated. They can by what they observe, label you as "having disassociated yourself" and just do it in absentia. They may not call it difellowshipping, but like attending another church, your actions kick you out automatically. Like the way that they have automatic disassocation for anyone who takes a blood transfusion now. It eliminates them having to be the "bad guys" if they say you "did it to yourself."
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I'M GETTIN' NERVOUS!
by Mary inmy surgery (hysterectomy) is scheduled for this friday and i'm getting really nervous.........nervous that the cancer may have spread, nervous about the pain, nervous about what i'm going to go through mentally, physically and emotionally afterwards (i guess i'll be going through the change of life real quick).
i've done pretty good so far: am trying to keep positive, eating right, exercising (i've lost 15 lbs!
), meditating, and i'm going on tuesday to someone who does reiki (i think that's how you spell it).
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LovesDubs
Mary, I too at 48 just had a hysterectomy (they removed EVERYTHING) last June. The WAITING is the terrifying part. But it helped to get my life in order anyway. Having a living will, and insurance and all that...telling my husband where everything is. Being pro-active. I cleaned my house good and was ready when I needed to be. I highly recommend this site for you...they are wonderful wonderful women who can really give you some great information:
It took about 6-8 weeks for me to feel quasi normal again, so dont rush it honey...just take it easy. That will help you heal quicker. If you want to talk..just give me a click!
hugs, Dawn
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I'm being DA by my family
by reagan_oconnor inwow... it's been awhile since i've posted, there are a lot of new names here.
i just had to post on this.... i received a letter from my mother friday telling me that she and my father no longer wish to associate with my husband or me.
they will contact me in case of emergency but thats it.
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LovesDubs
Yep...welcome to my, our, world Reag....like alcoholics, they lay blame on everybody else for their decisions in life. My abusive ex husband used to say to me all the time, "Look what you MADE me do to you!" And for awhile I believed it...now, I know its THEM who are f-cked up and not me. Which has of course made me the bitch on wheels I have always aspired to be :)
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Crocodile Tears, too little too late
by LovesDubs inmy mother in law is upset that i would leave her...she says she is crying at my loss.
and so, i replied to her: .
"dont be sad...what do you have to be sad about?
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LovesDubs
My mother in law is upset that I would leave her...she says she is crying at my loss. And so, I replied to her:
"Dont be sad...what do you have to be sad about? Jehovahs people are happy people, it says so right there in their propaganda, and the destruction of all those with bad heart conditions like me is a source of happiness for them. So...save the tears for the judicial committee where you will have to convince them you believe that this is Gods Organization and that the Faithful and Discreet Slave "Class" speaks for God. as they repeatedly claim. Like S P once told me of the elders, "hey, they're just men and men can be fooled." So even dyed in the wool JWs dont believe God acts through these men. I am no loss after all, I'm just one of those evil ones, whom they say are trying to "come between you and Jehovah" as if anything could if you really loved Him. You claimed you never left Jehovah when you were out of the JWs so I dont see how you can return to serving him if you never stopped serving him. Those are words of men. And not of your heart, and said only to the purpose of them letting you back in. We both know this.
I never believed in the Trinity, even as a Methodist...so I guess I am of the annointed and need to start my own religion just like the JWs. God must have given me the "truth" too according to your reason for returning, so Im going to go get some followers and start shunning everybody who thinks differently than I do. Thats all it takes obviously. You say you love Christ? Would you knowingly belong to an organization that has forsaken him and tricked people into believing the WTS were Christians? Thats exactly what this organization has done...and over the years morphed their beliefs using "new light" to accommodate whatever society's perception of them was in order to increase their member count. Do you want to belong to an organization based on lies and deceit? Does not the Watchtower condemn such organizations as the Catholic Church, the Mormons, and in fact all other religions as being based on lies and deceit? Would you be so blind as to accept your own religion's black past as being Christian when in fact it denounced Christ? If you have not read "30 Years a Watchtower Slave", you owe it to yourself, before you become trapped once again...if following CHRIST is what is in your heart and not just pursuit of the acceptance of MEN, to read it. William Schnell was THERE , a powerful man in the organization...there at the beginnings of this cult and its machinations to dominate the world and create the New World Order under the guise of a Theocracy, wanting to lure not just Christians to Christ, but anybody from ANY religion to enslave and sell their wares. He helped to BUILD it and now recoils at the monster he helped to create. If you are not willing to be honest about who these people really are, then you have no business being in the "truth", and if it is found to be a lie, then to be a part of it would be against all you have told me you believe. Will you turn your face away and pretend to not see, the clay feet of this organization? If you were a murderer, a liar and deceiver, and then suddenly after 30 years you put on a purple robe and began to preach about Bibles and love...should I forget your past and just accept this New You because you said to? Does God need to deceive people into following him? Would he back and support and bless an organization bearing his name who denounced Christ in order to increase their wealth and power? If you have any intellectual honesty left in you...you would see that He would not. I will leave you with this exerpt. As leave you I must for the sake of my own sanity. Let God in...and quit "leaning on your own understanding" and stop telling yourself and us, that He is leading you when your heart knows thats a lie, and that your heart is leading you.
Dawn
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Thirty Years A Watchtower Slave, William J. Schnell, 1956 pages 94-98
DOCTRINAL GYRATIONS 95
Incorporating the Gibeonites
Let us note in a bit more detail how they (the Org) cleverly made
use of the Scriptural picture of the Gibeonites.
The Gibeonites, as you will remember, were the inhabi-
tants of a Canaanite city lying in the pathway of Israel's occu-
pation of the Promised Land. Long before Joshua and
the Israelites approached the environs of the city, these good
people sent a deputation to Joshua pledging subjection and
asking in exchange a pledge of protection. The Gibeonites
made it appear as if they had come from a far distant country.
It was not until after a treaty of peace had been duly made
and ratified that it was discovered that the Gibeonites had
tricked Joshua. Israel reluctantly honored the treaty, and
allowed the Gibeonites to dwell in their midst and to share
their blessings. It even fought a battle for them against the
Canaanites. But Israel did not integrate the Gibeonites into
itself. Instead it made of them slaves, or "hewers of wood
and carriers of water" as the Scriptural account puts it. (See
Joshua 9:3.27; 10:6-10.) The Gibeonites gladly accepted this
role in exchange for the benefits which it afforded. It is this
event which the Watch Tower Society culled out of the
history of Israel in order to justify and interpret the role
which it planned for the Jonadabs, or unspiritual "Great
Multitude" within its midst. This story adapted itself admir-
ably to the Society's purpose - even though anyone not
already in the Watch Tower clutches and hypnotized by the
Watch Tower jargon will have a hard time to see the
connection.
Anyway, in this explanation the Society did not ostensibly
lower its sights. Did it not have Scriptural precedence and
warrant for its action? It lifted the sights even higher - to
its Watch Tower plateau, which was actually the Highway
to Zion of Isaiah 35. So a way was designed for the multitude
of newcomers to live within the "New Nation.' It no longer
mattered that they were not "spiritbegotten." They could
dwell within the framework of God's Organization as slaves,
as modern "hewers of wood and carriers of water," so to
speak. (not to become Christians but to sell the WTS wares)
What a vista for increase was opened up here far the
Watch Tower by virtue of this explanation! The Watch
Tower Society correctly saw that this new class was present
by the millions throughout the land of the anti-typical Canaanites,
namely Christendom. And so the book, Preparation
(1933), shows in discussing the prophecy of Zechariah, this
would not only be limited to Christendom. This class would
be drawn from all the nations of the world, whether Christian
or pagan, there "being ten men who grasped the coat of him
who is the Jew." By this it meant that other nations, not of
Christendom, also contained millions of such "people of good
will." which latter term was intended to indicate a fine shade
of differentiation. So, subtly here the Watch Tower Society
was laying the groundwork: first for the emergence of a vast
unspiritual class, and therefore an un-Christian class, out of
the lands of Christendom; and then later, for the emergence
of a still larger class to come from out of the pagan nations.
a class which never so much as laid claim to the spirituality
of Christianity. Thus naturally would the Jonadabs become
"the Great Multitude."
Christianity Discarded
The Watch Tower Society had reached a point where It
was forced to go even further. Quietly and Imperceptibly it
now had to disrobe itself of the mantle of Christianity which
It so long had worn for a cover and disguise. This was neces-
sary if it were to be at all successful among the discontented
masses within Christendom and later of Christ-hating heathendom. (The Society wanted haters of Christ in its midst as well, as these brought in money, which they pereceived they were stealing "from Egypt"...the rest of the world whom they deemed their enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, they reasoned.)
So the Watch Tower Society set about to bring a change
in its designation or name. "The only name under heaven by
which men can be saved" had become an "impediment to the
progress" of the New World Society. It no longer suited its
policy of world-rule. nor fitted its world-wide proselytizing
purpose. A general and more universal designation had to
be found. Looking back into their blueprint of the formation
of Israel at old, in the Old Testament, they soon hit upon
the Idea of calling themselves after the name of Jehovah,
"Jehovah's Witnesses." (Are they now doing Christs command here, bringing people to Him, or to themselves?)
In thus seeking to shed all connection with Christ they
failed to realize that they were also publicly branding them-
selves as opposers of Him who had provided for Christ's first
appearance on earth for man's redemption. And what was
equally condemning in our age, at this late stage of events,
they set themselves as a Organization squarely athwart the
path of Christ's second coming. They displayed the characteristics
of "the abomination of desolation spoken of by
Daniel, standing in the place it ought not to stand." And -
the apostle warns concerning the anti-christ, so the New
World Society pitted itself against the returning of Christ.
This Watch Tower doctrine thus became a confusing and
heady wine, Sat "would make drunken all the nations of the
world," instead of bringing in a condition of soberness,
advocated by Paul as being so necessary as the end
approaches.
This was now 1931, and was to mark another milestone
in Theocracy's advance. Twelve years of "the second tier" of
the Watch Tower Society (as I term the new set-up) had
elapsed since 1919. Since this was a historical fact within the
ken of all Jehovah's Witnesses who read their books, the
Society grasped this occasion to nail down its newly adopted
doctrines and practices. It did this by issuing a three-volume
commemorative publication entitled Vindication (1932).
Even though the Society had by this time disowned the
name of Christ it did not think it inconsistent to make use
of one of Christ's parables to further its purpose, in fact, it
saw real advantage in doing so. This would help cover up
the fact that it had for the sake of expediency turned its back
on Christianity by choosing a name other than the only name
by which men can be saved. At the same time it could give
Christian color to its argument It found a parable which was
admirably adapted for its misuse, namely, the parable of The
Laborers in the Vineyard. It compared the twelve years since
1919 to the twelve hours of the parable. All the laborers in
the Organization were to receive an equal reward, regardless
of the length or type of service. And what reward was that to
be? Why, the wonderful new name, "Jehovah's Witnesses."
This parable served their purpose wonderfully well. The
Organization even had the counterpart of the murmurers of
the parable. They were the older ones, or rather, the ones
who had worked the longer. These were those of the
Mordecai-Naomi class which had with some of the new
Ruth-Esther class turned side in disappointment and
dissatisfaction. But all without exception and without distinc-
tion, even those newly come in as unspiritual Jonadabs, would
now have one designation. The spiritual and unspiritual alike
would be comprehended under the one name "Jehovah's
Witnesses." Herewith the parable had served its purpose.
This gave all, regardless of class, the same standing within
the Organization. It made it a synagogue or assembly alike
in breadth to the kingdom and nations of the world. In
appropriating this interpretation of the parable the Society
presumed itself to be a Theocracy, thereby claiming to be
the spiritual Israel or "the New Nation" (See Rev. 29). In so
doing it turned its back on the ecclesia or Church of Christ,
which is selective and not all-comprehensive in its structure
as was the Jewish synagogue. Thus, the Watch Tower So-
ciety and its Jehovah's Witnesses ceased to be Christian in
essence as well as in name.
But in order to bring forth the intended multitudes from
out of Christendom, and later from heathendom, the Organiza-
don had to make a name for itself. The best way to
accomplish this purpose was to go to war! It is surprising
how well and how long the Scriptural story of the Gibeonites
served the Watch Tower purpose. The Society now, as had
Israel of old, went to war in behalf of its adopted "Gibeon-
ites," the Jonadabs. It carried the battle for "freedom of
worship" all the way from the Justice of the Peace to the
Supreme Court. Throughout the battle the Society feigned
the role of martyr and underdog, and emerged as a victorious
hero. The campaign was 100 per cent successful. The details
of this battle will be told in subsequent pages.
Yes, the Watch Tower Organization had stooped - and
had conquered! (end book quote)"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."
Jeremiah 20:21 - "Hear, now, this, O unwise people that is without heart. They have eyes but they cannot see, they have ears but they cannot hear."Edited by - LovesDubs on 7 October 2002 13:6:17
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JW Looking For an Argument...Wanna Have Some Fun?
by Robdar inanybody want to help us out at "the other board"?
we have a jw trolling about.
janh and others are doing a splendid job with this person, but you may want to join in the fun too.. out of respect to simon, i wont post the url.
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LovesDubs
I dont know aboout you guys, but I go to several boards. There is a variety of topics and enough "discussion" for everybody. I dont feel like Im being unfaithful to Simon by doing so...and Im sure he doesnt care either. The object is to help people, either in or out of the borg and to heal. If that can be done over several boards...let the play begin!
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Would you throw a pebble at a boulder
by kenpodragon inwould you throw a pebble at a boulder.
in my contact with my witness family i am often confronted with several subjects that make me want to bite my lip and say to myself "don't bother!
" as i realize they would never listen to my thoughts anyway.
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LovesDubs
Ask David what difference a small stone could make against somebody like Goliath?
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Dear Mommy Dearest....
by LovesDubs inyes...im venting but i didnt want any jws out there to think that they can just walk all over their non or exjw relatives and we will just sit here allowing them to do it again and again and.... "dear ..... well...so you got what you wanted.
and that's all that matters.
i knew when you sat here and cried on my bed at losing all those "friends" that you were going to go back.
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LovesDubs
Yes...Im venting but I didnt want any JWs out there to think that they can just walk all over their non or EXJW relatives and we will just SIT here allowing them to do it again and again and...
"Dear ....
Well...so you got what you wanted. And that's all that matters. I knew when you sat here and cried on my bed at losing all those "friends" that you were going to go back. You can't live by yourself. Never could. If you have convinced yourself once again that this cult is the "truth" then so be it. Nothing the rest of us can do. But you know the deal...I wont play this game. I wont hold back saying what I want to say out of "respect" for you or this cult whom I totally DONT respect, and who blatantly disrepects all other people and their beliefs uncategorically. They are about as united in love as the KKK are. Anybody steps one toe outta line in there and they are treated like dog crap until the holier than thous decide they are worthy again to associate with. Ugh.
You arent going to resepect what I believe...thats a ludicrous statement. Thats a mindless JW statement to make yourself look "open minded"..I know the routine. You cant and DONT respect my beliefs so quit lying to me. You are REQUIRED to shun me. Starting immediately you must...if you want to kiss butt sufficiently to be reinstated. C would never allow you to continue to have a relationship with me. Hes going to be watching you like a hawk because you have been wishy washy all along. Now you have to go back to condemning Catholicism, and praying that your nonJW children, and your sister and MY children, DIE so they will get a ressurection. You think God cant see your heart? Its not what goes in to a man that condemns him, but what comes out of his mouth. Im sorry...thats just wrong, and its as far from God's love as a human being can get.
You want this...you can have it. But I wont play "nice" when you are around to make it easier for you. Sound familiar? Deja vu? My feelings matter in this too. I wont sell out just to appease you. You will get your family back and I will stay out of the way. You will not discuss your religion with my children nor take them to any meetings . We are back to that place again. I will not have my children learning a religion that teaches that they are superior to all others, and that all others deserve to DIE...just as Hitler taught. I will not.
Yeah..Im angry about this. Mostly because I thought we were friends, and you were deliberately dishonest with me. It doesnt matter what reaction I was going to have or not going to have..you should have told me. You owed me that! I was THERE for you when the rest of those jackasses deserted you! And now you want me to fit into some definition of a relationship you have designed for me so we can be civil? I dont think so. I love you and I will always love you. I wont play this stupid f-ing game with you tho. Hey...Im used to people playing the game to get what they want...hell thats what M and S did isnt it? I dont buy for a minute that you believe this crap..not for one nannosecond. So you can practice your "I know this is the truth" gig on anyone you want to ...but not me. Maybe you have studied "the bible" all this time but I have studied THIS ORGANIZATION for the last 5 years without having my thoughts dictated by its propaganda, and its run by a bunch of self aggrandizing, cold hearted, legalistic, hypocritical, demigods who protect and harbor pedophiles, and who couldnt care less about their followers. Their only concern is for money to keep the empire going. But..you dont want to hear that. La la la la la laaaaa..I cant HEAR you D....la la la laaaaaa
Go ahead ignore all the red flags...they just get in the way of P getting what P wants. You said yourself not three months ago, that you had to CONVINCE yourself while you sat in those meetings during your last "return" attempt. So dont now tell me that you know its the "truth" when the facts show succinctly that it isnt. (So they think Christ isnt God? So what? They also think he is Michael the Archangel and Abaddon and that leukocytes are evil and joining the YMCA is satanic...puhleeze) Being a member of ANY religious organization is NOT a requirement for salvation, least of all this one. First they say all "organizations" are satanic and "religion is a snare and a racket" and now they are spouting that they are "Gods Organization" and "The Only True Religion" hellloooo...how stupid do they and you think we all are?? And they have the balls to sell those as Gods Words?? Christ specifically warned against being followers of men...and here you are. With your rosy glasses on that filter out all "bad" so that C will come back. Practice your "motivation" for doing this with the mirror...nobody is buying it. But they will pretend to if you are reinstated because they have to, just like we all had to do with M and S. The rest of us...wont.
When you want to see the kids you will see the kids and you will not see me.
I dont want to see you. It will hurt to be around you. And I have hurt enough. And dont try to "force" yourself on me like you do J and P. I know that game too, and that shows YOU were not respecting THEIR beliefs, which is what you are now asking ME to do. Nice double standard.
Thats just the way it has to be. My feelings COUNT TOO. The JWs seem to think that THEY are the only ones everybody else on the freakin PLANET has to cow tow to. Well...get over it. If this is "Gods Organization" then he has lowered his standards to the dirt. This cult destroys lives, families, marriages. Always has...always will. Christ isnt even your mediator for gods sake. So dont be telling me you are becoming a Christian again..when in fact you are being separated from Him by an organization who puts itself squarely between men and God, pushing Christ aside.
So...Im outta here. You can justify this away too. Its just Satan getting angry because he's "losing another one" with you going back...thats the way we JWs were trained to think isnt it. You will be in JW limbo-hell until you are reinstated. Just like A. Not in not out. Please dont be sending guilt gifts to my kids either. You know that annoys the hell outta me. They deserve honesty. Their family has been torn to SHREDS by this cult. Id rather they not have anything to do with it. Bad enough their father is a flaming JW hypocrite.I dont care if this hurts, I dont care if its brash, I dont care any more since no JW has ever given a shit about my feelings in any of this. Ive been treated like a leper for 5 years. Im not deserving you know. I read the August 2002 Kingdom Ministry insert...I know how EXJW relatives are to be treated. You best review it if you have forgotten already. And dont tell me you were trying to SPARE my feelings...you took the cowards way out. Its the JWs way or nothing...once again. Dont write back. Just go do your thing and leave me alone like you have been doing. Thats the way I WANT it. Dont keep this, just feed it to the toilet and go be happy happy. When this all falls through...and I suspect it will...dont expect me to be here with open arms to catch you again. Why should I lay back down in front of that truck again?
With all "due" respect,
D
(The Damn Happy to Be a "Bitter" Apostate Class)" -
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The shunning begins
by LovesDubs incheck out my mother in laws new thinking...already the jws have firmly replaced her ability to think for herself:.
"dear d"i just got your note today, since i was out of commission for a week or more.i wasn't "waiting to tell you," nor was i going to" jump back into shunning d." i just didn't think this was going to be happy news, and judging from your choice of words in this note, i was right!
i have been going to meetings for a couple of months and have expressed a desire to be reinstated.
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LovesDubs
Blond...you know what maybe its my age, but I have no tolerance for people who think they can just jerk me around my whole life and Im always going to be here for them when things get f*ked up again for them. Well its not going to happen. I have enough people in my life who love me and want to be with me NO MATTER WHAT I believe or they believe and who will not reject me as a human being at their whim, and expect me to accept them with open arms when they are alone again. She has done this to me one too many times. Mother in law or not.
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"MY LIFE IS RUINED BECAUSE I WAS A WITNESS...
by minimus ini know of so many people that blame everything on the fact that they were witnesses.have a lousy job?
it's because you were a witness.
angry over anything?
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LovesDubs
I have no family now because of the witnesses and there isnt a damn thing anybody can do about it. We cant see each other, we cant have get togethers, we cant discuss things, we cant hug, we cant share, we cant go to each others homes, we have no mutual friends, we are in constant suspicion about each other, my marriage is hanging on by a thread. Aside from that...life is just peachy thank you.