Comments? Black Slavery

by Naeblis 108 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    A tricky issue, especially so since I am related to Sir John Hawkins, who was the first Englishman to sail the middle passage (trade goods->Africa, slaves->West Indies/America, Spices & cotton->England).

    Basically where does responsibility start? With my Gx8(?) grandfather? With the owners of slaves in the US? With the Arabs who started the slave trade to supply their own and the Romans' needs? With the African chiefs who rounded up people for the slavers?

    An apology is avoided because of fears of this leading to financial responsibility. Resolving where the financial responsibility for reparations lies would probably make some black people rich, but they'd be lawyers.

    But there is a moral arguement for an apology, and not much of one for NOT making an apology, other than that sited above.

    However, looking at the huge financial assistance Israel gets, anyone gonna play dumb over why some Muslims think the US are biased?

    Keep on rocking in the free world...

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    It's amazing what a little clear thinking can do to a raging argument.

    I have read every single post, kind of saying to myself, yeah, no, yes, stupid, well there you have it, ignorant sod, what a dick, for several pages.

    Then someone comes along with comments that are loud, clear,critical to the theme,really demanding a reply(thank you TJ)comments that come from someone, who knows more about the issue's (himself a black person) that truly make all the rest of the discussion, seem just loud posturing either from a politicaly correct horizon, or just biased assumptions, and individual idea's, the majority of individuals not even remotely associated with the issue. Yet when confronted with Tj's real and unemotional question, silence rains supreme from the peanut gallery????

    Danny

  • teejay
    teejay

    Danny,

    I love you, maannnnn! <wiping a tear, getting choked up>

    <changing gears> But, goddammmit, I've been working on a nice, thorough, skillfully worded follow-up, and you go and blow it. THANKS, buddy!!!

    when confronted with real and unemotional question, silence rains supreme from the peanut gallery????
    You noticed that, too? hmmmm.....

    Naeblis?

    drahcir yarrum?

    SaintSatan?

    Six?

    funkyderek?

    Any of you guys still around?

    peace,
    tj

  • teejay
    teejay

    Utopian,

    Perhaps our leaders are more superstitious than we realize, and given their anglo-saxon WASP backgrounds, they may actually believe it bring's some type of blessing/luck/favor/approval from some divine source to continue assisting Israel.

    I was thinking more along the lines that people of Jewish descent hold powerful positions in corporate America and as a result, wield considerable influence over U.S. government policy. Regardless of who lives in the White House, Israeli appeasement has always been the byword.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Abaddon

    However, looking at the huge financial assistance Israel gets, anyone gonna play dumb over why some Muslims think the US are biased?

    Since last Tuesday, few people are willing to speak out about this as having anything to do with the attack. "It was an attack on our way of life." Bush is going to free the world of "evil-doers". (does anyone else see a religious flavor to those words? And it's bin Laden who is the supposed religious zealot!)

    One who is, like it or not, is Farrakhan. See http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/17/111516.shtml 's
    Also see: http://www.msnbc.com/news/628053.asp

    It's not surprising that Bush nor the media is giving this perspective much airplay. America's friendship with Israel probably has nothing to do with the tragedy. Riiiiiight.

    tj

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Teejay, I'm still around. I just didn't have much to add. Your point about tax money being used for foreign aid is a good one. Personally I don't believe that any of the money I earn should go to anybody else without my permission, but voicing such a view usually gets one labelled a fascist. Not that I'm afraid of being falsely labelled, just had nothing to add to the subject under discussion.

    --
    Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire

  • LDH
    LDH

    HEY! I'm still here. (Am I part of the peanut gallery?)

    I was just working on a treatise to my father re: JW and college education.

    Any how, not only were TJs remarks excellent, but ABADDON's were dead on.

    (Of course, I would think that, as he agreed with me on several points, LOL)

    My post:

    ? An apology means you've accepted responsibility

    Abaddon's post:

    An apology is avoided because of fears of this leading to financial responsibility. Resolving where the financial responsibility for reparations lies would probably make some black people rich, but they'd be lawyers

    Abaddon's right, class action lawsuits NEVER reward anyone except the attorneys. (Well, anyhow they just collect like big fat cats and cut the 'victims' checks for pennies on the dollar.

    Funky Derek,

    Personally I don't believe that any of the money I earn should go to anybody else without my permission, but voicing such a view usually gets one labelled a fascist.

    That's why you HAVE to vote. It's your opportunity to be heard.

    On the Israel tip, when I visited those people were JUST PLAIN RUDE as soon as they found out I was an 'American.' You would think they'd be falling all over themselves to kiss our ass. T'aint so.

    Danny,

    I have read every single post, kind of saying to myself, yeah, no, yes, stupid, well there you have it, ignorant sod, what a dick, for several pages.

    Well, at least people are reading it. I never said I was right about everything. I just want to have a dialogue about slavery.race.humanity without name calling. It is possible. EVERYONE has made valid points in this thread. Hell, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Thanks for reading it.

    Lisa

  • teejay
    teejay

    FunkyD,

    Personally I don't believe that any of the money I earn should go to anybody else without my permission...

    Yes, but now that it's been demonstrated that the U.S. government does TAKE $2 from you every month and sends it DI-rectly to Israel, what are you going to do about it? Likely nothing... just keep ponying up the money, just like every other taxable American.

    More importantly, if the U.S. government took an additional quarter from you for slave reparations... well... what would you do about that? I may be wrong, but I think your revolt would be quite vocal -- and you'd have a world of company -- screamin' bloody murder.... over a quarter.

    Two dollars for Israelis? No problem. A quarter for Americans, to be circulated right back into the American economy? NOW we got us a problem.

    I could be wrong, though. You may just go along with the added tax, to help fellow Americans.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    LDH,

    Uh, I could be wrong, but I think Danny was talking about a different peanut gallery.

    peace,
    tj

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    TJ

    I hastily clipped and pasted together a slightly out of date list of pro-israel jews who are in top levels of US govt, for those interested.

    S

    ---------------------------

    List of the Jews in President Clinton´s First Administration

    NAME POSITION

    Albright, Madeleine K US Ambassador to the UN
    Altman, Roger Deputy to Secretary Bentson
    Baird, Zoe Attorney General (Declined Post)
    Berger, Samuel National Security Deputy Head
    Boorstin, Robert Communications Aide
    Boykin, Keith Communications Aide
    Dreyer, David Communications Aide
    Eisenstat, Stuart E Asst Secretary of State: Security
    Eller, Jeff Communications Aide
    Feder, Judith Advisor to Secretary of Health
    Gober, Hershel Asst Secty for Veterans' Affairs
    Herman, Alexis Secty to President: Public Works
    Kantor, Mickey US Trade Representative
    Klain, Ron Third White House Counsel
    Kunin, Madeleine Assistant Secretary of Education
    Kusnet, David Communications Aide
    Lewis, Samuel Director of Strategy
    Ludwig, Eugene A Director of the Mint (Jew of course)
    Magaziner, Ira Cheif Advisor: Security Questions
    Newman, Frank N Asst Secretary of State: Finance
    Nussbaum, Bernard White House Counsel
    Oxman, Stephen A Asst Secretary of State: Europe
    Paster, Howard Presidential Secty for Congress
    Pena, Federico F Secretary of Transportation
    Rahm, Emanuel Presidential Secty Political Affairs
    Reich, Robert Secretary of Labor
    Rivlin, Alice Deputy Director: OMB
    Rubin, Robert E Head: Counsel Economic Advisors
    Segal, Eli Director: Office of Nat'l Service
    Seidman, Ricki Communications Aide (Research)
    Schifter, Richard US Ambassador to Israeli
    Spero, Joan Edelman Asst Secty State: Econ Affairs
    Summers, Lawrence H Asst Secty State for Policy
    Tarnoff, Peter Asst Secty State: Pol Affairs
    Waldman, Michael Communications Aide

    Article from the American Jewish magazine "Jewish Post", 16/9-1992:

    Clinton Advisers: 5 of 7 are Jewish

    NEW YORK - Of the seven advisers on whom Gov Clinton relies, at least five are Jewish and perhaps six
    They are Robert Reich, 45, a professor of Harvard's John F Kennedy School of Government; Ira Magaziner, 45, president of SJS, Inc; Robert J Shapiro, 42, vice president of the Progressive Policy Institute; Samuel R Berger, 46, former deputy director of the State Department policy planning staff; and Michael Mandelbaum, 45, professor and director of American foreign policy studies at the Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University
    The following is a list (which doesn't include lower staff levels) of Jews in the present Clinton adminstration:
    (1/4/1998)

    Madeleine Albright
    Secretary of State

    Robert Rubin
    Secretary of Treasury

    William Cohen
    Secretary of Defense

    Dan Glickman
    Secretary of Agriculture

    George Tenet
    CIA Chief

    Samuel Berger
    Head National Security Council

    Evelyn Lieberman
    Deputy Chief of Staff

    Stuart Eizenstat
    Under Secretary of State

    Charlene Barshefsky
    US Trade Representative

    Susan Thomases
    Aide to First Lady

    Joel Klein
    Assistant Attorney General

    Gene Sperling
    National Economic Council

    Ira Magaziner
    National Health Care

    Peter Tarnoff
    Deputy Secretary of State

    Alice Rivlin
    Ecomomic Advisory

    Janet Yellen
    Chairwoman, National Economic Council

    Rahm Emanuel
    Policy Advisor

    Doug Sosnik
    Counsel to President

    Jim Steinberg
    Deputy to National Security Chief

    Jay Footlik
    Special Liason to the Jewish Community
    (no other group has a special liason)

    Robert Nash
    Personal Chief

    Jane Sherburne
    President's Lawyer

    Mark Penn
    Asia Expert to NEC

    Sandy Kristoff
    Health Care Chief

    Robert Boorstin
    Communications Aide

    Keith Boykin
    Communications Aide

    Jeff Eller
    Special Assistant to Clinton

    Tom Epstein
    Health Care Adviser

    Judith Feder
    National Security Council

    Richard Feinberg
    Assistant Secretary Veterans

    Hershel Gober
    Food and Drug Administration

    Steve Kessler
    White House Counsel

    Ron Klein
    Assistant Secretary Education

    Madeleine Kunin
    Communications Aide

    David Kusnet
    Dept AIDS Program

    Margaret Hamburg
    Dir Press Conferences

    Many Grunwald
    Liason to Jewish Leaders

    Karen Adler
    Dir State Dept Policy

    Samuel Lewis
    National Security Council

    Stanley Ross
    National Security Council

    Dan Schifter
    Director Peace Corps

    Eli Segal
    Deputy Chief of Staff

    Alan Greenspan
    Chairman of Federal Reserve Bank

    Robert Weiner
    Drug Policy Coordinator

    Jack Lew
    Deputy Director Management and Budget

    James P Rubin
    Under Secretary of State

    David Lipton
    Under Secretary of The Treasury

    Lanny P Breuer
    Special Counsel to The President

    Richard Holbrooke
    Special Representative to NATO

    Kenneth Apfel
    Chief of Social Security

    Joel Klein
    Deputy Whlte Honse Counsel

    Sidney Blumenthal
    Speclal Advisor to Pirst Lady

    David Kessler
    Chief of Food & Drug Adininistration

    Seth Waxman
    Acting Solicitor General

    Mark Penn
    Presidential Pollster

    Dennis Ross
    Special Middle East Representative

    Howard Shapiro
    - General Counsel for the FBI

    Lanny Davis
    White House Special Counsel

    Sally Katzen
    Secretary of Management and Budget

    Kathleen Koch
    Heads FBI Equal Opportunity Office

    John Podesta
    Deputy Chief of Staff

    Alan Blinder
    Vice Chairman of Federal Reserve

    Janet Yellen
    Heads Council of Economlc Advisors

    Ron Klain
    Chief of Staff for Al Gore

    List of some of the Jewish US Ambassadors:

    Germany:
    Ambassador John C Kornblum
    Germany has long been seen as an adversary of the Jews Thus a Jewish Ambassador places them under direct Jewish pressure

    France:
    Ambassador Felix Rohatyn
    Rohatyn is a former partner in the Jewish Lazard Freres investment bank In September the French oil company, "Total," invested $2 billion in the production of oil in Iran Rohatyn is seeking to Veto this project due to Israel's hostility toward Iran Rohatyn said; "Globalization doesn't carry a threat, but it carries discipline"

    Poland:
    Ambassador Daniel Fried
    Chester Grabowski, editor of "The Polish Post Eagle", and others urged Clinton to name a Polish American This plea was ignored There has never been a Jew ambassador to Poland before as Jews hold an animosity toward Poles This is considered as a gross insult Regardless, Fried jokingly said: "I will now have to brush up on their language"

    Denmark:
    Ambassador Edward E Elson
    Dr Fields attended Marist High School in Atlanta with the Elson brothers He learned that their family made a fortune in the textile business and are big contributors to the Democratic Party

    Hungary:
    Ambassador Donald M Blinken
    This country has long been considered "anti-Semitic" Budapest has the largest Jewish population in Europe, some 125,000 Jews, only exceeded by Paris Thus Blinken can protect their financial interests

    Romania:
    Ambassador Alfred H Moses
    At one time Romania was ruled by an allJewish Communist Party under Anna Pauka Romania is closely allied with Israel Six members of the Rumanian Senate, three of them priests, objected to Clinton's 1994 appointment of Moses stating that he was closely connected to the fallen Communist Ceausescu regime

    Belgium:
    Ambassador Alan J Blinken
    Antwerp, Belgium is the diamond capital of the world next to Tel Aviv The diamond business is totally Jew-controlled Blinken is in a position to further protect their interests He is related to the Blinken ambassador to Hungary

    Belarus:
    Ambassador Kenneth S Yalowitz
    Belarus is located between Poland and Russia It once had a huge Jewish population They still have interests there

    South Africa:
    Ambassador James A Joseph
    The Jewish Oppenheimer family controls this gold mining capital of the world The Jewish-run South African Communist Party and the ANC now control the government and loyally do the bidding of the gold interests)

    India:
    Ambassador Frank G Wisner
    This economic powerhouse has long sided with the Arabs against Israel and needs more Zionist control

    Turkey:
    Ambassador Marc Grossman
    The "Kemalist" Turkey is the only Middle East border country with a military alliance with Israel They pose a threat to Syria and Iraq over long simmering border disputes Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was a secret Jewish infiltrator ! This explains the alliance between the Ataturk-influenced military regime in Turkey and the fraudulent and criminal state of Israel! This also explains the opposition of the "kémalian" junta against the rennaisance of Islam amongst the muslim people of Turkey!

    New Zealand:
    Ambassador Josiah H Beeman

    Egypt:
    Ambassador Daniel C Kurtzer
    Egypt is the recipient of the second largest amount of US foreign aid This is to "buy off" Israel's southern front Any hostility toward Israel would end the aid)

    Sweden:
    Ambassador Thomas L Siebert

    Morocco:
    Ambassador Marc C Ginsberg

    Singapore:
    Ambassador Timothy A Chorba

    Zambia:
    Ambassador Arlene Render

    Brazil:
    Ambassador Melvyn Levitsky
    This is South America's largest country and economic powerhouse Jews have huge investments here

    Bolivia:
    Ambassador Curt W Kamman
    This is another mineral rich country; copper, magnesium, lead, etc

    Mexico:
    Ambassador Jeffrey Davidow
    Davidow was formerly Assistant Secy Of State for South America under Albright Mexico sends the US more immigrants and trade than any other nation

    Canada:
    Ambassador Gordon Giffin
    Thus Clinton has given both our border neighbors, Mexico and Canada, to Jewish operatives

    Cuba:
    US Interest Head, Michael G Kozak
    One would think that this nation would have a Spanish Catholi "Interest Chief" instead of a Jew???

    Norway:
    Ambassador David B Hermelin
    Hermelin is a Michigan multi-millionaire real estate developer and president of the World Jewish ORT Union Re owns Palace Sports and Entertainment, "The Palace" of Auburn Hills and the "Pine Knob Music Theater"

    Switzerland:
    Ambassador Madeleine M Kunin
    Kunin is the former Democratic governor of Vermont Her four children attended a Hebrew school The New York Times of Oct 4, 1997 says she, "doggedly pursues the Swiss on the issue of gold for holocaust survivors"

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Yes, but now that it's been demonstrated that the U.S. government does TAKE $2 from you every month and sends it DI-rectly to Israel, what are you going to do about it? Likely nothing... just keep ponying up the money, just like every other taxable American.

    Well, it doesn't take it from me, me not being an American citizen or ever having been in America, but you're probably right. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go to jail for those two dollars.

    --
    Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire

  • LDH
    LDH

    ok can we please go back to discussing the holocaust of black slavery?

    This list of 'influential Jews' has me scared, and I ain't no conspiracy theorist!

    PS, I found some research on Kent's website that says maybe this shouldn't surprise us, that Jews hold top level positions. Check this out.
    [quote] In 1993, two researchers published the result of a massive survey to identify trends within the major religious groups in the United States. Barry A. Kosmin and Seymour P. Lachman called their project the National Survey of Religious Identification. The survey had a sample size of 113,000 people, including 900 Jehovah's Witnesses.
    Educational Rank - Religion - Percentage of members that are college grads
    1. Unitarian Universalist: 49.5%
    2. Hindu: 47%
    3. Jewish: 46.7%
    7. Agnostic: 36.3%
    18. Catholic: 20%
    19. Mormon: 19.2%
    20. Lutheran 18%

    21. Seventh Day Adventist: 17.9%
    27. Baptist: 10.4%
    28. Pentecostal: 6.9%
    30. Jehovah's Witnesses: 4.7%

    So, don't expect to see Jerry Falwell or JR Brown on Bush's cabinet anytime soon.

    Unfortunately, we need highly educated people in these postions and most of them may not hold our views on Israel.

    Lisa

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