np candidly...try starting here http://www.carm.org/jw/slave.htm
The Scotsman...this thread is started for you if you wish to comment....
by FreedomFrog 116 Replies latest jw friends
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AlphaOmega
The key understandings are not changed. A clearer picture starts to emerge.
Would this apply to the major change in the date of Jesus' "presence" 1874 - 1914?
Would this apply to the teaching that people from1914 will still be alive when Armageddon kicks off? This is still on the official Watchtower website!
Also, I have a question... If according to the Revelation Book, the Great Crowd are the one who "make it through Armageddon", what is the fate of Witness who have now died? Are they Great Crowd ?
Bit of a sidetrack, but it just occured to me.
We all want the tuth as Ninja said. As Paul said, we are supposed to have Spiritual Meat to chew on, the output of the Watchtower is not spiritual meat - it has already been chewed and digested into their idea of the truth.
Dig deeper - chew.
The people here are not the wild apostate animals that you have been led to believe. They are all Truthseekers.
Don't mean to be offensive. But short of writing an essay,it is hard not to come across as blunt.
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ninja
thanks undercover and brinjy.....I know how the guy is feeling ....you know something is up and yet you will defend the watchtower to the end....hopefully he takes the watchtower specs off and can reason for himself.....all the best scotsman mate on your journey of finding out the truth about the truth.....ninja
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The Scotsman
Wow Wow Wow!!!!! Slow down guys and dolls!
There is enough info here for about 30 different threads!!!!
There is a lot of repition of points in the posts!!! Many are clearly prepared for such a question!!!
I have said this before on this forum - the vast majority of your qoutes are from 60, 70 years ago and even older than that on a few cases. Those who question the organisation tend to fall into 2 categories - had a bad experience or get hung up on 80 year old articles.
Also a few of the articles qouted are not changes of any significance. (The Watchtower re: Generation will not pass away.)
The core point is the same, it is the understanding of the word generation which has changed. For JWs this was not anything of significance.
Despite all of this - where else can we go to have a verse by verse explanation of Revelation - Daniel, Ezekiel etc. Who else could truly claim to be preaching worldwide? What about the high moral standard displayed by Jehovahs people. No involvement in war or politics.
These and other points identify Jehovahs Witnesses as as his true followers.
I shall return later to read our comments - I am at work after all - I better do something.
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ninja
hey scotto...I had no bad experience other than realising all wasnt well in Denmark.....the reason we go 70-80 years back is for the same reason as the witnesses...you probably study the revelation book which tries to establish that the faithful and discreet slave was commissioned back then.....then agree that the seven trumpet blasts of revelation were the conventions at cedar point etc....you cant have it one way ....then when folk show you that they couldn't possibly be the faithful slave say....but that was years ago!!!....it isnt reasonable is it......can I ask you a question....what date that the watchtower gave as the end came true?????......was Jehovah behind that date .....or rather weren't they acting presumptuously saying they got the dates from God?.....why did Jesus say to watch out for false prophets....what are the fruits a of false prophet???? isn't it false prophecy?...how many people were stumbled due to these false prophecies??....lots to think about......ninja
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Paralipomenon
"get hung up on 80 year old articles."
How old is the bible again? -
fullofdoubtnow
Also a few of the articles qouted are not changes of any significance. (The Watchtower re: Generation will not pass away.)
The core point is the same, it is the understanding of the word generation which has changed. For JWs this was not anything of significance
I knew a few elderly jws for whom the generation change was very significant. They had been taught for many years, all their lives in some cases, that armageddon would arrive in their lifetime as those that saw 1914 would still be here when the end came. Then, in 1995, the watchtower postponed armageddon by saying that the generation jesus talked about could be any generation that ignored the watchtower's version of the truth.
Most of those elderly jws are dead now. They died confused, frightened and disappointed because they had been taught to believe that they probably wouldn't die.
The reason for the generation change was nothing to do with new understanding. It was everything to do with the watchtower realising thatt, without some kind of change, all the 1914 generation would die out, and they would be left to find yet another embarassing explanation of the failure of their prophecy.
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AlphaOmega
Despite all of this - where else can we go to have a verse by verse explanation of Revelation - Daniel, Ezekiel etc. Who else could truly claim to be preaching worldwide? What about the high moral standard displayed by Jehovahs people.
The thing with all those commentaries, is that they convey SOMEONE ELSE's views. They are not necessarily the truth. "Christendom" has commentaries and concordances, but most people use these along with other material for their research - libraries, the internet, talking with other people... then they let the Spirit guide them to the truth.
The truth is a lot simpler than the WT makes out. It really just concerns acceptance of Jesus. All the prophecies and their interpretation either point to him, which the Bible explains by itself, or else they shouldn't be a source of concern for us. God will reveal his plan to us in his time in his way - if he wants us to know about it, he will reveal it to us (Joel ? Spirit being poured out upon everyone).
What happens to us in the future is God's business. I guess the thing that I am trying to say is that Christianity is more about what JWs call "heart condition" and the acceptance of the "ransom sacrifice" rather than gathering knowledge.
As to the "high moral standard"... I agree, that many Witnesses do display it, but is that because it is a fruit of the spirit or is it because it is a learned response ?
There are a lot of people who have had first-hand experience that says that not all JWs display the high moral standard of which you speak. Infact, if you follow the news closely, you will see that the "clergy child abuse" horror applies to JWs as well as everyone else.
I don't think that it is a case of being prepared for this question - more like "always being ready to give an account of what they believe"
I too am at work - and it is nearly home time !!
Stay here and explore the site - you'll get to see a lot of hard facts about the WT plus you might make some new friends.
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eclipse
The key understandings are not changed. A clearer picture starts to emerge.
Really?
God said, ''abstain from blood'', right?
So they staunchly directed the brothers that blood transfusions were against God's law. Deserving of death.
So many many babies, children and brothers and sisters DIED for this law.
So this law WAS important to uphold, was it not?
I mean, if you would DIE for something, nothing else could be considered more important.
Now that is changed. How is accepting blood fractions abstaining from blood? It's not.
I think it is great progress medically, but scripturally, it is going against their previous commandment.
Also with the UN involvement, the Society said outright that Christendom is a WHORE who rides the WILD BEAST, and that CHRISTENDOM would be devoured by this WILDBEAST, and you claim that they are teaching the truth, so therefore, Christendom must be a whore riding the UN,
and here they (the Society) were, RIDING it along side with all the other religious organizations for 10 years.
That is the height of HYPOCRISY & LIES.
They lied about being no part of the UN.
They lied about being a NGO member in order to need a library pass, this is NOT true, membership is NOT a requirement.
How can we trust a LYING, HYPOCRITICAL, MAN-RUN ORGANIZATION?
And they have the audicty to disfellowship those who have YMCA memberships. PHARISEES.
Don't even get me started about Malawi and Mexico.
SCOTTSMAN, Explain how The Society could possibly be sanctioned by Jesus and Jehovah!??
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dawg
Scottsman. I love you bro... but you can't say 1914 is 80 years ago... it's teaching held today and it's flat out false! Jeursalem fell in 586 not 607 so why do the witnesses cling to 607 even today? If you teach that 1914 was significant prophetically you are teaching something false, and witnesses teach that 1914 had special significance... it has no significance other then wwi started that year. THe biible says that we must worship God in spirit and truth, if you teach 1914 as a special year then you're teaching somehting besed on a falsehood-god doesn't want that from us. ANd if you were to buck up to the GB you'd be disfellowshipped for teaching this lie. This isn't scriptual.
Telling other men that you can't teach a falsehood shouldn't make you get removed from your family and friends, this isn't scriptual... only gluttons, fornicators, greedy persons are supposed to be disfellowshipped... Not people that know better than the WT crap. This is another area where tey have overstepped their boundroies and placed themselves on par with God...
One quote given to me yesterday from the WT said that following the slave is the same as followuing Jesus..,.this is blasphemous plain and simple... it is god alone we shoud worship. THis one statement makes me shiver... why doesn't it you?