by reniaa 421 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Great scriptures, lovelylil! Really puts the WTBTS theology in its proper place. Keep up the good work!
Just want to add Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned!
by the way Joseph,
I would like to see in scripture where people were worshiped with no problem. Do not mixup the words "obesiance" which is bowing out of respect with the word "worship". Trust me I am going to look up any verse you give me in its original language to see what word was used.
The WT used "obeisance" instead of "worship" in the NWT to hide that fact that Christ was God. You really should throw away that trashy bible Joseph, and you too Reniaa. No wonder you two are so mixed up.
Lilly
actually Sacolton, the WT admitted in a WT article- I can find it but need time if you want- they they do preach a different gospel than that taiught by the apostles. I believe they said more is needed...
Some facts about the NWT and the words "obeisance" and "worship" This information was taken from here; http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt_proskuneo.htm
The New World Translation and The chart below is a list of every occurrence of the Greek word "proskuneo" that I could find in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1969). This work was produced by the New World Translation Bible committee in accordance with the Watchtower organization. An interlinear is a word for word translation of the Greek text. Included in this Watchtower interlinear is the text of the New World Translation Bible placed in a column on each page so the reader can see exactly how the NWT renders each occurrence of the verb "proskuneo."
It seems that as the Watchtower theology changed, they needed a Bible consistent with those changes; hence, the New World Translation. Following is a chart listing every appearance of the word "proskuneo" in the New World Translation. Let's see if the bias of the Watchtower organization is obvious. |
| Verse | Jesus | God | Demons | dragon, beast, image | Devil | Generic | Idols | Peter | angel |
| Matt. 2:2 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 2:8 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 2:11 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 4:9 | worship | ||||||||
| Matt. 4:10 | worship | ||||||||
| Matt. 8:2 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 9:18 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 14:33 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 15:25 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 18:26 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 20:20 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 28:9 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Matt. 28:17 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Mark 5:6 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Mark 15:19 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Luke 4:7 | worship | ||||||||
| Luke 4:8 | worship | ||||||||
| Luke 24:52 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Verse | Jesus | God | Demons | dragon, beast, image | Devil | Generic | Idols | Peter | angel |
| John 4:20 | worship | ||||||||
| John 4:21 | worship | ||||||||
| John 4:22 | worship | ||||||||
| John 4:23 | worship | ||||||||
| John 4:23 | worship | ||||||||
| John 4:24 | worship | ||||||||
| John 9:38 | obeisance | ||||||||
| John 12:20 | worship | ||||||||
| Acts 7:43 | worship | ||||||||
| Acts 8:27 | worship | ||||||||
| Acts 10:25 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Acts 24:11 | worship | ||||||||
| 1 Cor. 14:25 | worship | ||||||||
| Heb. 1:6 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Heb. 11:21 | worship | ||||||||
| Verse | Jesus | God | Demons | dragon, beast, image | Devil | Generic | Idols | Peter | angel |
| Rev. 3:9 | obeisance | ||||||||
| Rev. 4:10 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 5:14 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 7:11 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 9:20 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 11:1 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 11:16 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 13:4 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 13:8 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 13:12 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 13:15 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 14:7 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 14:9 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 14:11 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 15:4 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 16:2 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 19:4 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 19:10 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 19:20 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 20:4 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 22:8 | worship | ||||||||
| Rev. 22:9 | worship |
| As you can see, the NWT is very bias in how it translates the word "proskuneo." Whenever it is in reference to Jesus, they absolutely will not let it be translated as worship. Why? Because they erringly deny that Jesus is God in flesh and their Bible reflects their bias. This is not how proper theology is done. The Watchtower Organization has changed the Bible to suit its needs. |
and even if you want to use the word obeisance please refer to the verse up above I posted in Acts...and ask yourself how Peter reacted when receiving, as the NWT puts it...obeisance....The NWT translates Cornelius bowing down to Peter as obeisance and Peter still tells him not to do this as he is just a man.
That's a pretty open and shut case the proves the WTBTS wanting to steer people away from Jesus thus losing their salvation.
Slappy and StAnn,
I think you two are going to convert me to full trinitarian yet.
The Spirit leads as the Spirit wills, I claim nothing.
In truth, I wasn't sure of the importance of understanding the idea of the Trinity myself. However, as a result of this topic and having to look a little deeper into God's Word, I am beginning to see that such a relationship is not only possible, but quite possibly necessary.
slappy
reniaa
I have an honest question for you.
In the book of John Chapter 6 Jesus calls himself "the bread that came down from heaven"
John 6:31 Our forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" 32 Hence Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Moses did not give YOU the bread from heaven, but my Father does give YOU the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." 34 Therefore they said to him: "Lord, always give us this bread." 35 Jesus said to them: "I am the bread of life. He that comes to me will not get hungry at all, and he that exercises faith in me will never get thirsty at all. 36 But I have said to YOU, YOU have even seen me and yet do not believe. 37 Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the one that comes to me I will by no means drive away; 38 because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 This is the will of him that sent me, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day." 41 Therefore the Jews began to murmur at him because he said: "I am the bread that came down from heaven"; 42 and they began saying: "Is this not Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it that now he says, 'I have come down from heaven'?" 43 In answer Jesus said to them: "Stop murmuring among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by Jehovah.' Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Most truly I say to YOU, He that believes has everlasting life. 48"I am the bread of life. 49 YOUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world."
If Jesus was just a man, what came down from heaven?
44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day.
Looks to me like god is not your choosing him, but rather him choosing you.
Maybe this is why some people can never understand the meaning of the scriptures and will always follow traditions of men.
So despite never mentioning he is God and obeiance/worship been a word all through the bible given to kings, appostles, moses and yes jesus etc, you think you can say that people doing this to jesus proves he is God?
The sheer amount it is used really shoots your saying 'whole jesus must be God if he lets people worship him.'in the foot
I have through reading like slappy come to a greater understanding of the trinity, unlike slappy it has made me even more sceptical of it,
The constant reminders that they are 3 separate beings means that God is lying in OT when he says he is one God. All jews/muslims know that this is none negotiable, and they in this respect haven't changed from before Jesus, Jesus was a jew that believed in One God, why make it a commandment only to change it?
God a not a title to be shared between 3 separate beings it is the Supreme being it describes what God is!, Did all 3 appear magically at the same time as separate people or if jesus did appear second can God just say you are God to Jesus and make it so? think on this! The bible is not trying to make us believe in the trinity it is trying to show us the relationship between Father and son. Also remember the bible isn't written for scholars its written for average joe to understand and he would walk away going 'OOoh Jesus is Gods son!" The bible God's inspired word is telling us what the nearest definition to jesus's and jehovah's relationship is, Believe it!.
If your have to argue special circumstances to make certain words come to different conclusions then you really need to relook at your conclusions...
Renia
