WANTED ! JW Apologist

by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Earnest:That is the same as saying the foreigners fleeing from Egypt had to stay with the Israelites but it was still God and Christ (the Rock) which was saving them through the Red Sea etc.

    isaacaustin :Except for this simple detail. We know exactly when Moses was appointed directly by God to his postion. It is recorded for us. The WT has attempted to appoint themselves to this position. So an analysis of that claim is necessary and proves to be anything but true. We both know the Wt denouces any who leave the org- they deem it impossible to keep one's relationship with God and Christ UNLESS in touch with the org- they placlaim themselves (and only themselves) as the spiritual israelites.

    isaacaustin : I am not arguing whether or not the WT are appointed. I am saying that it is nonsense to suggest that Jehovah's Witnesses do not approach God in prayer through Jesus and/or do not believe that he offers his ransom sacrifice on their behalf simply because the WT teaches that the word 'mediator', when used in scripture, is used in a legal sense. I agree that they do "they deem it impossible to keep one's relationship with God and Christ UNLESS in touch with the org- they ploclaim themselves (and only themselves) as the spiritual israelites", but this is different to substituting themselves in place of Christ. As I explained in my previous post, an analogy can be drawn with the foreigners who fled with the Israelites out of Egypt. While it was God and Christ who saved them by parting the Red Sea, providing water and food in the Wilderness, and leading them by a Pillar of Light (if I remember correctly)...those foreigners would not have been in a position to be saved if they had not stuck with the body of Israelites. Whether or not that association of "spiritual Israel" with the nation of Israel is tenable is not the point I am making. The only point I'm making is that it is nonsense to say that Jehovah's Witnesses teach or believe that Christ is not their saviour.

    wobble : "Earnest" wants us to substitute "go-between" for mediator, O.K lets do this in 1Tim2v5&6,

    " there is one go-between God and men,a man,Christ Jesus,who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"

    How does that change the truth that Jesus is the way the truth and the life,that he alone explains the Father,that we approach the father through him alone,and God responds to us through Him alone,and His ransom is for ALL.

    No F.D.S or G.B in between,no one else needed to explain scripture,no limit on the number who can take advantage, in faith, of this go-between, just me Jesus and The Father,show me from scripture where you read differently.

    wobble : I do not read it differently. You express the point I am making very well. The only term that refers explicitly to the "anointed" is the word 'mediator' because it is used in a legal sense. I have no argument with your statement above and do not believe the WT would argue with it either.

  • besty
    besty

    Reniaa: I accept your explanation but I don't believe it.

    Please post a list of the unique beliefs the WTS was promoting at or around the beginning of the 20th Century (that they still promote today) to justify your claims of holy spirit at that time.

    Here's a quick reminder of unique beliefs from that time, which accepting/believing today would see you DF'd for apostasy: (believe it or not), but which according to the WTS helped Jesus make his mind up:

    • The "Last Days" started in 1799 and the 1800’s were the worst time period of all history
    • That Jesus had begun ruling in 1874
    • Armageddon had already occurred in 1914
    • That the end was going to come in 1925
    • That blood was acceptable as food for Christians
    • That Jesus should be prayed to and worshipped as well as Jehovah
    • That the Great Crowd were a heavenly class
    • That birthdays and Christmas were acceptable celebrations
    • The cross was on the cover of the Watchtower
    • Many teachings adapted from Freemasons, such as that pyramids and astrology supported 1914
    • Strong Zionist support for a new nation of Israel in fulfilment of Bible prophecy
    • That the Faithful and Discreet Slave was not the anointed, but rather Pastor Russell
    • that the earthly resurrection would start in 1925
  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Besty, there you again with all those facts and evidence.

    :-)

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    Reniaa...does the Watchtower logo constitute a graven image like a cross? It is looked to as a symbol of the Organization. If it doesn't have any special meaning, why does it appear on the buildings, publications, etc.?

  • possible-san
    possible-san

    reniaa.

    Since I explained to you exactly, if you have not ignored my remark, you know it.
    I myself do not believe the Trinity, and I also deny a fundamentalism interpretation.

    Therefore, I have not complained of the justification of the Trinity to you from a Trinitarian's viewpoint.

    It is enough if you believe in the only God.
    There is no necessity that you attack people who believes the Trinity.

    It is not the true Trinity doctrine which you say as the "Trinity" repeatedly, and you are attacking it (Fake).

    It is extremely foolish, watching from the third party, that you indicate "what is not the Trinity", and call it the "Trinity", and you are attacking it (Fake).
    It is not the way of investigating truth clearly.Therefore, I am saying to you "Stop such a way."

    Although I was teaching it to you kindly repeatedly, you cannot understand it.

    possible
    http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    and Reniaa, since it seems to be a detestable practice to you, why was it ok for the FDS to use the cross at the time they were appointed?

  • besty
    besty

    It's interesting to see her concede acceptance, but not belief, in the WTS core doctrine that confers self-declared divine legitimacy on them.

    As evidence for this appointment she notes they were 'gifted with so many bible truths' at that time.

    I'm simply asking which of those bible truths are both unique to them and are still considered bible truths today.

    By way of compare and contrast I have listed their unique bible truths which informed Jesus' decision to choose the WTS, but which unfortunately have not stood the test of time and would now get you disfellowshipped for apostasy.

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    The truth of the matter is all religions will spin their religious doctrines to establish that they are God's established spiritual

    channel, call it a self serving identity, the JWS do it as proficiently as the any of the other religions around.

    More important is their direct teachings and structuring to followers.

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Besty,

    I'm going out on a limb here and predicting............that you will not get a straight answer from R. There is a phrase "casting your pearls before swine."

    You have been so honest and diligent and debated so fairly that it is a shame that your efforts are not being met in a likewise straightforward manner. Eight pages after you first asked a simple question, your sincere inquiry is still mocked. This is who Jehovah's Witnesses are - intellectually dishonest cowards.

    Thinking about the kingdom song - "We're Jehovah's Witnesses, we speak out in fearlessness. Ours is the God of True Prophecy - what He foretells comes to be!"

    Lies, liars on all counts.

  • watson
    watson
    I accept the dates because whether right or wrong the holy spirit must have been acting on or around that time for them to have been gifted with so many bible truths.

    Sorry, but just had to see this again.

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