What hope is there then?

by sayitsnotso 290 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cult classic

  NVL - seems so.

  SINS - those are classic bullet points that WT uses to "prove" they are the true religion. You must see that, no?
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  Mad Sweeney

  My reasons based on the following composite (in no particular order of importance):

  1. Having a worldwide brotherhood that loves one another.

  This is far from unique. MANY groups have love and SHOW it A LOT more via obedience to the Bible's commands to do charitable works. Also if you widen out your knowledge of what really goes on you will see that the love isn't as great as advertised, either.

  2. Not going to war (otherwise we wouldn't have #1)

  Again, this is not a Jehovah's Witness exclusive belief. LOTS of people refuse to fight in wars. Also, there is no scriptural command to avoid serving in the armed forces, anyway, so this isn't a requirement for a "true" religion.

  3. Basing beliefs on the Bible (remember the prerequsite that the bible is reliable above) See 4-11.

  That is a BIG IF there. You are calling a book "reliable" (the NWT) that is a version that might be wrong in many places, of a translation that might be wrong in many places, of a copy that might be wrong, of another great number of copies that might be wrong, of an original document that might be wrong, of an oral tradition that might be wrong. You can put faith in it's "truth" if you want to but that's a HUGE assumption.

  Assuming it is true, MANY RELIGIONS base their beliefs on the Bible. They just use different translations and interpretations, for the most part, than JWs do. Several religions, however DO believe basically the SAME THINGs as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  4. Teaches that the soul is not immortal (otherwise, yes we would have heard back from someone that died by now)

  Again, other religions teach this. Not a majority, granted, but the Jehovah's Witnesses aren't unique in this regard. Google is your friend.

  5. Teaches that there is no hellfire. A loving God wouldn't punish people with forever-long suffering. That isn't reasonable.

  Does ANY religion still teach literal hellfire? We're in the 21st century, bro. Information exists and is easily found. There may be a few kook fringe groups that still believe in hellfire but most groups do not. So once again, the ONE true religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is not alone.

  6. Does not hide or downplay God's name Jehovah or teach a Trinity.

  I don't believe in a Trinity but I can see that it has a decent amount of scriptural support if you interpret things a certain way. Jehovah's Witnesses merely decided to interpret things a DIFFERENT way. The truth of this is neither important nor discoverable.

  7. Preaches the Good News of God's Kingdom

  All Christian religions preach the gospel (good news). They just understand what it means differently from Jehovah's Witnesses.

  8. Keeps seperate from the world

  Again, all Christians do this to the extent that they interpret the scriptural meaning of "the world." They don't do it to the extreme because they don't interpret the scriptural counsel in the same extreme way Jehovah's Witnesses do.

  9. Adam and Eve lost perfect life in pardasic conditions on earth.

  Got any evidence of that? Besides how is this some identifying mark of true religion?

  10. The bible says Jesus was the Second Adam to enable mankind to regain what was lost.

  But Jehovah's Witnesses say he is ONLY the mediator between the anointed heavenly class and God. He isn't considered mediator for mankind according to Jehovah's Witnesses. This isn't just a scriptural interpretation; it is INVENTED DOCTRINE that opposes the scriptures.

  11. Just as in Noah's day, Jehovah will again destroy ungodly people

  Many other religions believe this, too. Yet, we don't even know that the flood was a literal event. Evidence would lead one to think it was not.

  12. Satan challanged God's right to rule, implying that self-rule (or Satan's way) would be better.

  Another interpretation that is only weakly and tangentially supported by Scripture. This isn't really an identifying mark of "true" religion that I can see.
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  sacolton

  At this point no. To me if God exists and the Bible is reliable then I have no problem accepting that JWs are the one true religion. My reasons based on the following composite (in no particular order of importance):

  Having a worldwide brotherhood that loves one another.

  So does every other organized religion.

  Not going to war (otherwise we wouldn't have #1)

  Let me ask you: If wars could be prevented - I'm all for it, but would you just let an enemy come into your land and kill your loved ones? You just roll over and let someone rape and plunder your household? If the Jehovah's Witnesses had their own country - I guess they would only pray that noone invades them, right? Otherwise, they would just do nothing? It's so easy to say "war is bad" when you don't lift a hand to protect the fight for the freedoms you are obviously take advantage of. Maybe one day we won't have war ... that would be nice, but until that day comes ... you should be thankful for those who protect your freedom.

  Basing beliefs on the Bible (remember the prerequsite that the bible is reliable above) See 4-11.

  Your basing your beliefs on what you are told (spoon-fed) to you.

  Teaches that the soul is not immortal (otherwise, yes we would have heard back from someone that died by now)

  That's the WTBTS interpretation and nothing more. Why don't you do your own independent research on this subject? Just because they (Watchtower) says so doesn't mean they are correct.

  Teaches that there is no hellfire. A loving God wouldn't punish people with forever-long suffering. That isn't reasonable.

  Again - research this yourself (not with WTBTS publications) and come to your own conclusions instead of what you are told.

  Does not hide or downplay God's name Jehovah or teach a Trinity.

  Jehovah isn't the Divine Name. Research this for yourself.

  Preaches the Good News of God's Kingdom

  Preaches not the Good News, but a perverted gospel that everyone must bow to the Watchtower organization and be a member for a chance of salvation.

  Keeps seperate from the world

  That's funny. How separate are you from the world? Do you buy your food from worldly grocery stores? Do you drive a car? Do you use a computer or any technology that was created by worldly corporations? How about if you lived like the Amish do? They seem more separate from the world than how Jehovah's Witnesses live.

  Adam and Eve lost perfect life in pardasic conditions on earth.

  So? Your point is ... ?

  The bible says Jesus was the Second Adam to enable mankind to regain what was lost.

  Again ... what is your point?

  Just as in Noah's day, Jehovah will again destroy ungodly people

  That's a loving message. Did you research that yourself or where you told that "Jehovah" will kill billions of non-JWs?

  Satan challanged God's right to rule, implying that self-rule (or Satan's way) would be better.

  No idea where you are going with this. What does this have to do with the Watchtower?
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  leavingwt

  I have an open mind. I think that is important to maintain.

  Excellent.

  Please check your PMs. (Private Messages) There is a little envelope in the upper, right-hand corner. The first time you attempt to get the message, it will give an error. Click the 'Back' button on your browser, then try it again. You'll then be able to get the message.

  I've sent you a message.
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  tec

  No organization here on earth could be perfect as it is made up of imperfect humans. - Sayitsnotso

  Which is why you put your faith directly into Jesus' hands, and not the hands of any human organization. I say Jesus' hands, because we only know God through Jesus. And it is not disrespectful to go directly to Christ. Take a father passing on his estate to his son. The father wants all workers to go directly to the son, out of love for his son. That son in turn does well with his father's estate, tending it as his father wants, out of respect and love for his father.

  This is the relationship I see between Jesus and his Father. With all authority as God has given Jesus, Jesus does everything as his Father wants him to do. If we go to Jesus, we are respecting and loving both him and his Father. I mean, no father on earth is going to feel slighted or jealous because people have turned to the son he loves, especially when he commanded that they do so. God certainly isn't going to feel slighted either.

  "This is my son, whom I love. Listen to Him." Mark 9:7

  Tammy
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  Meeting Junkie No More

  The hope I have now is the hope of a new adventure in a world I will discover at that point (death).

  Before I entered THIS world (which I liken to a door), I knew nothing of what it held or promised (as a babe). Since leaving the Witnesses, I find I am enjoying the experience of THIS life a whole lot more than I did as a Witness - so many possibilities!

  After death (which is another door), I hope to enter ETERNITY (which I now neither understand nor know anything of). However, I do believe that Jesus tried to give us some directions or pointers as to what that eternal space is about - maybe some of his insights got garbled in the transmission; I am trying to figure these out to the best of my ability. Hopefully that makes some kind of sense! Keep searching, reading, discussing....
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  sayitsnotso

  Let me ask you: If wars could be prevented - I'm all for it, but would you just let an enemy come into your land and kill your loved ones? You just roll over and let someone rape and plunder your household? If the Jehovah's Witnesses had their own country - I guess they would only pray that noone invades them, right? Otherwise, they would just do nothing? It's so easy to say "war is bad" when you don't lift a hand to protect the fight for the freedoms you are obviously take advantage of. Maybe one day we won't have war ... that would be nice, but until that day comes ... you should be thankful for those who protect your freedom.

  I can understand the point you make about someone coming into my house to kill, rape, and plunder. I would need to protect my family as much as I could. My goal would not be to kill, unless that is the only option. However, this is different when it comes to the country in which I live because of the following reasons:

  1) The country is not my family. While I respect the government, I choose to not be involved in it's affairs.

  2) There are people that will fight. They do not need me. Consider also, if everyone was one of JWs then there would be no war, and thus no need to fight.

  3) Most wars involve killing innocent people. How could I have that bloodguilt on my hands? What would happen if I killed a fellow believer? I could not put myself in that positon.

  3) There are some situations when yes, one needs to do nothing, just as Jesus did not fight and instructed Peter not to.
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  sacolton

  Excellent point, Tammy.

  Instead, the JW customers demand to only do business with the Father by side-stepping around the Son.
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  OUTLAW

  At this point no. To me if God exists and the Bible is reliable then I have no problem accepting that JWs are the one true religion. My reasons based on the following composite (in no particular order of importance):

  1. Having a worldwide brotherhood that loves one another.
  2. Not going to war (otherwise we wouldn't have #1)
  3. Basing beliefs on the Bible (remember the prerequsite that the bible is reliable above) See 4-11
  4. Teaches that the soul is not immortal (otherwise, yes we would have heard back from someone that died by now)
  5. Teaches that there is no hellfire. A loving God wouldn't punish people with forever-long suffering. That isn't reasonable.
  6. Does not hide or downplay God's name Jehovah or teach a Trinity.
  7. Preaches the Good News of God's Kingdom
  8. Keeps seperate from the world
  9. Adam and Eve lost perfect life in pardasic conditions on earth.
  10. The bible says Jesus was the Second Adam to enable mankind to regain what was lost.
  11. Just as in Noah's day, Jehovah will again destroy ungodly people
  12. Satan challanged God's right to rule, implying that self-rule (or Satan's way) would be better.

  It`s obvious you did`t go very far to get your information..

  1.JW`s do not have the market cornered on a world wide brotherhood that loves one another..

  2.The WBT$ is invested in War (Rand Cam Engine Corp)

  3.Most WBT$ beliefs are not Bible based..

  4.The name Jehovah is a 14th century translation mistake,made by a catholic monk..

  5.Find the date 1914 in the bible..You can`t it`s not there..

  What real research did you do? NONE!!..

  LOL!!..

  Your not interested in researching the JW`s..

  And..

  You not interested in being a JW that follows WBT$ orders,or you would`nt be here..

  Your here to preach about a Cult you have no real interest in..

  ............................... ...OUTLAW
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  PSacramento

  I can accept and respect your beliefs. Please know that for many of us, there is not currently sufficient evidence to convince us of this. I can only ask that you try to understand my point of view.

  Of course I do, you know that and so does God, God understands why you don't believe and why you need proof and God is ok with that, trust me on this.

  See, I didn't believe it either, not until I had no choice but to believe it.

  I know this though, there is no proof that will satisfy you, just as there was no proof that satisfied me.