adam & eve (page 6)

aChristian

Clash,

We have gone through this before. I have already answered this question at great length in other threads. Evidently you didn't read my responses to you or didn't understand them. So, I doubt posting another long answer to your question here will change things. If you are relly interested in reading a long answer to your question look up one of those old threads and do so.

For now I will just say that the word "fall" is not used in the Bible to describe what happened in Eden. I believe that Adam did not "fall" from a condition of righteousness to a condition of unrighteousness. I believe God simply used Adam to demonstrate the unrighteous condition of the human race, of which Adam was a part. God also used Adam to show that all people are undeserving of eternal life, and that we are all in need of God's forgivness which He now offers us through Jesus Christ.

Clash, obviously we understand some parts of the Bible a little differently. Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to do that. Christians are.

JosephAlward

RWC wrote

I think that it is unbelievable that Mary knowing that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit while she was a virgin....[to] believe that he is out of his mind. It makes no sense....

Of course it doesn’t make sense, and that’s the point. The “Mary” Luke described cannot be the same one Mark described. At least one of them is wrong.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Faithful2Jah

Joe: I think you are wrong about this. Three different explanations have been given here which all seem more reasonable than what you say Mark meant, that Mary did not believe in Jesus. One was that Jesus' family went to get him because they thought he was out of his mind for not being more discreet in his words and actions. Another was that Jesus' family went to get him because "they," meaning other people, were saying he was out of his mind. And the third was that Mary was not among the family members who said Jesus was out of his mind but decided to accompany those who did.

You, however, insist on seeing this as a "Bible contradiction" and as proof that the Bible can't be trusted. I can't help wondering why you hate the Bible so much that you spend so much of your time attacking it. Care to clue us in?

sadiejive

.

JosephAlward

Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." (Mark 3:31-35)

Rather than spending their time thinking up far-fetched scenarios in an attempt to deny that Mark had Mary deny Jesus' divinity, apologists should explain why Mark had Jesus reject his mother. The reason, I believe, is obvious to all but those who would rather die than admit the Bible is in error. The reason Mark had Jesus say that the person outside was not his mother was that Mark, in effect, earlier in Mark 3:21 had her deny that Jesus was the son of God, thereby going against God’s will, and anyone who does not do God’s will cannot be a “mother” to Jesus, according to Mark.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Faithful2Jah

As Joseph well knows and as anyone who reads the passage in question will see, Mark did not have "Mary say" Jesus was out of his mind. With this latest dishonest treatment of the words of scripture in mind, I again feel compelled to ask, why do you hate the Bible so much that you spend so much of your time attacking it?

I see you just edited your post to correct your error. "Mary" did not "say" what you just said she said. It's good to see you are trying to keep your act "clean."

pomegranate

I believe Joe has vengenance against the Bible because somehow a particular church wronged him.

RWC

Joe the only thing that doesn't make sense is your attempt to make a contradiction where one doesn't exist. The Mary in Luke is the same Mary in Mark and there is no evidence otherwise.

Also, Jesus did not reject his natural family as you interpret the scripture you cited. Jesus' statement was a way to teach the idea that he had a larger spiritual family of those who believed in him and if you believe you belong to that family. However, no where in the passage does it say that he was rejecting Mary for not believing in him. In fact, the Bible teaches that Jesus will not reject anyone, the rejecting comes from the people, not from Jesus. He is always ready to accept a person even if that person earlier rejected him.

JosephAlward

RWC believes that

the Bible teaches that Jesus will not reject anyone

but he evidently either overlooked what Matthew had Jesus say, or didn't understand its implication:

You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? (Matthew 12:34)

Does RWC think that calling someone evil and a snake amounts to accepting that person?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

pomegranate

Joe is correct. Jesus does not accept everyone.

adam & eve

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