by brotherdan 388 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Lifes to short for both of you to be hurting. you need to do something to fix it now..the poor kid/kids are caught in the middle..
When you get older do you want to regret spending your life in a situation where no one is happy?.
Playing games only makes both of you unhappy..why prolong it?
Unless at least half of your life is smile worthy, why put up with it?
Snoozy..who believes in taking the bull by the horns..
Thanks for the great advice everyone.
Part of the problem is that I haven't been a spiritual head. The only times we've ever prayed as a family is when another JW came over for dinner. We never had a family prayer. I've never taught my son how to pray. I've shriked my spiritual responsibilities.
And I don't know how to do it now. I think that I've had subconscious issues with the organization for a long time now, and when I got married I was happy to just consentrate on my wife (and then my kids) instead of God. Now that I see the WT is a sham and I have a new found love of God, I don't know how to do it with my family.
I WANT to take yknot's advice and start a family worship night. But my wife no longer respects me spiritually. I'm not thick headed and prideful and unwilling to compromise, but I also don't want to give her the wrong impression that maybe someday I'll "come around" and realize that I've made a terrible mistake.
So at this point, I don't know how to teach my son about God. Isn't that sad? How dare I come on this board and argue theology with people, when I can't even take care of my own family.
bd: teaching your son about god? he trusts you he will believe anything you tell him. at least teach him to think by himself, to wait until he is old enuf to investigate on his own. you religious beliefs are yours only. let him pick his own. you and me were indoctribated from childhood, do you wanna do the same? empower him, teach him to think by himself. its not too late he s only five
Brother Dan I'm so sad for you that you and the woman you love have to go through this. I dont know the whole story but I'd agree with some here that you have to show her love and support ....if she confronts you about it I think you should make sure she knows that you feel you have to be true to yourself ...thats a big thing ....after all marriage vows dont include conditions on staying in an organisation...I hope she realises this soon....
Loz x
Dysfunction wrote:
Please and I say please do not leave booklets and ect around, and do not try to keep her busy the day or night before the meeting. She will say that Satan is using you to get to her.
So true, JWs see that anything that is trying to take them away from this religion is from Satan.
I feel for you brodan, this cult is a cancer on the people trapped in it and on those who are trying to escape. It's never pretty fighting cancer but it can be done. Time is needed, each persons fight is unique, even though you have shared your story with us, we really do not know the full story. You know your wife better than she does, forget fighting with her about the 'truth', maybe it's time to fake it and return. Then use the 'Family Worship Night' as the head to wake her up about this shitty religion. Like I said 'maybe' for who am I to tell you what to do or what will work. I really feel for you . ..
This might take years to help her wake up to the truth about the 'Truth'.
It took my friend 8 years to help his wife see it.
3Mozzies
So at this point, I don't know how to teach my son about God. Isn't that sad? How dare I come on this board and argue theology with people, when I can't even take care of my own family.
Its not sad at all. I'm still learning too. I put my kids in a catholic school because I didn't know what I believed, but I didn't want them to miss out on some sort of faith in God. That's sad, but you know what? At this age, they love a God and Jesus who loves them. They're not deep into any indoctrination, and they know we aren't catholic, but that its okay for different people to believe things differently. I just talk a bit about my faith every once in a while in casual conversation - or when they have questions and come to me.
Just be honest with your son, Dan, at all stages in his and your growth. As for praying, just keep it simple: Dear Father in heaven (or God or whatever your son is comfortable with)... I am happy about this, could you please help (so and so) with this, could you please help me with this. thank you, amen. He'll come to you with questions when he has them.
Tammy
Dan , so sorry you are going through this.
Though, my husband and I have been separated for a month, we are starting to talk again, pleasantly. Despite alot of pressure from others , his friends , and mine to divorce. Im not ready. Im taking it slow and if we are talking, then there is still hope. Remember she is being told to set an example for you, "if you're not strong, they 'll be nothing for him to come back to" Thats alot for someone to deal with. I noticed my husband gets real obstinate when he's gone to a meeting or service. He feels like he has to do something to get me back (as a jw, that is) he has told me that he feels this way and that if I dont come back to it, then he feels pressured to divorce me on grounds of spiritual endangerment. which I think is bs, because I never try to stop him from being a jw anyway.
Just keep things simple for your son.
Brother Dan you can't change everything at once, it's too overwhelming for everyone in your family, including you. Stress is best when it comes in little manageable increments. Make one little change at a time. You've stopped going to meetings and you've told your wife the reason why and looked at the uproar that caused. That's enough for now. Just allow time for everyone to adjust to this new reality of you not going to meetings. Try to keep everything else in your life the same for now.
I do agree with six-of-nine about telling your child why you are not going. If he's asking he wants to know. Your wife has already put him in the middle of the war, so by you telling him an easy to understand reason, and allowing him to see it is no big deal, not something too horrible to talk about, you are reassuring him and taking him out of the middle.
All you need to tell him is that daddy used to believe that the kingdom hall was the place to go to learn the truth about God, but I don't believe that any more, so I don't want to go. Mommy still believes it and she wants to keep going, that's why she is so mad at daddy.
edited to add: Your wife is turning on the guilt, anger and emotional manipulation big time. If you give in to her now, you are sending the message that this behaviour works and you will be dooming yourself to a lifetime of her using this type of behaviour to get her way, not just over JW stuff. Her behaviour is very childish, and as any parent knows, you don't give into a tantrum today, if you don't want to put up with a tantrum every day for the next 20 years.
It's good to stand firm, be calm, loving and rational, do your fair share with the house and kids when you're home, but don't bend over backwards to kowtow to her when she is being nasty. That also sends the wrong message, that its OK to act that way and she can expect extra kindness and sensitivity the nastier she is. I'm not saying return tit for tat. I'm just saying don't reward her bad behaviour. The world doesn't work that way, and it won't hurt her to realize that.
WANT to take yknot's advice and start a family worship night. But my wife no longer respects me spiritually. I'm not thick headed and prideful and unwilling to compromise, but I also don't want to give her the wrong impression that maybe someday I'll "come around" and realize that I've made a terrible mistake.
So at this point, I don't know how to teach my son about God. Isn't that sad? How dare I come on this board and argue theology with people, when I can't even take care of my own family
wrong impressions: Bless your little heart, dearest baby brother this is full-on theocratic warfare! There are no honorable rules here and the WTS has no intention of letting you have her or the kids without ruining all your lives first. Lead Carrots are part of the 'game' and you should use them as the WTS does. It is fine to let her think a 'little' you might come back because that will make her want to work things out and to follow your lead (ie get your foot back in that door and into 'spiritual headship again'....because THAT IS WHAT SHE WANTS MORE THAN ANYTHING NOW! So there you have it and open door invitation if you will only 'take the lead' humbly but determined.
It is okay to admit 'doubting' or 'issues' too. You just have to let her sniff and maybe lick the carrot to get her hooked on chasing your a bit more and the WTS just a little bit less. Every believing JW woman (weak or uber) wants/desires/craves/fantasizes about having a man in the Org to sit by them, give them valid status and generally just make us feel spiritually complete!
Sure she may not 'respect' you now but play the part, jiggle the carrot for a month and she will be putty in your hands. Heck you can even go 'uber' on the Bible aspect, she won't discern much at first she will be too giddy with joy to see you proving yourself! (okay she might give you some 'tests' subconsciously if you have really screwed up-- if she does- play it by the WTS book and don't sweat any of it, cuz this is what men before you and after you have to do to win against the WTS)
You have got to get back 'in' to get 'out'................ men manipulate the women in their lives all the time, this isn't a big deal, it is just about getting her to trust you more, follow you more, desire your praise more...... (so demand more of her attention, give her your attention as a reward, touch her in ways that create a sense of belonging, protection and concern-- up the sexual stuff too......take center stage in her life as the weight of her world, let the WTS fall into 'tag along' status....talk about balance and perspective (hey the WTS says a lot of stuff and as born-ins we can discern 'hype' from good advice as we have a lot of 'been there, done that' experiences within the Org)
Women trust the men we love beyond our anger, fear, instinct and everything else because well that is what keeps the population going ....or if you want a biblical slant.....because 'craving you boys' is our punishment! We can't get away from this whether you argue creation or evolution we want to be desired, loved, cherished, protected and demanded upon by yall.
__________
Okay now onto the 'FWN'.............. do as 'Mother' has done and directly 'borrow' from the people we 'borrowed' this idea from! Like myself you have little ones and sitting forever listening to a WT/CBSbook or KM ain't gonna happen for more than a minute or two! Little ones do well with a 'sunday school' style study (I do this at my home and so do many other JW parents!) The simple lesson format(basic bible stories), snack (mom and kids can make theme cookies or historical dinner menu), activity (acting out a scene), game (bible character memory), songs and craft routine does wonders and builds nice memories! If wifey gets antsy--- ahead of time pick out some easy CBS/WT answers for your son to give or have him practice his oral reading of scriptures!
Your wife will believe you are 'turning your attention' to the kids spiritual wellfare and she will be very content. Make sure to emphasis 'Jehovah' and 'Jesus' a lot!
Teaching God is easy.......use basic bible stories that transcend denomination and interpretation.
Google 'Family Home Evening' ...... there is tons of ideas and they can work with any denominational interpretation with little tweaking! If you aren't satisfied with those ideas google 'sunday school lessons for 5 year olds'.... again a wealth of ideas and information.
Create time for 'couples' study. This is where you will cover the WTS material. Don't dread it, relish all the tidbits and sifts that are in the publications for you to bring out 'truth about the truth' or to ask her questions that require 'independent or critical' thinking. Go DEEP, but bring up perspective and balance on such things as education, oral sex, the end is nigh, balance of money things and family time versus theocratic. BRING UP OLDER PUBS as a point of sincere interest on your part thank to this summer's DC DVD and wanting to cover them because you have a 'burning desire to make sure all things' and make a point to apologize to her for selfishly discerning things alone when you value her help and opinion, you really want her help in this endeavor as you dont' want to find yourselves going in different spiritual directions!
Take the Lead, be firm but gentle, knowledgable but humble......be the ideal JWman your mama raised you to be and the man of her (current spiritual) dreams.
Get back 'in' so you can waltz her 'out' the exit and into a non-WTS controlled/led life.....
lastly......kneel down in prayer ,pour your heart out, bawl your eyes out and the whole nine yards of prostration....
Things will get better....... she wants them to be better too and best of all she wants YOU!
hugs
brotherdan Part of the problem is that I haven't been a spiritual head. The only times we've ever prayed as a family is when another JW came over for dinner. We never had a family prayer. I've never taught my son how to pray. I've shriked my spiritual responsibilities.
9 "This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
And I don't know how to do it now. I think that I've had subconscious issues with the organization for a long time now, and when I got married I was happy to just consentrate on my wife (and then my kids) instead of God. Now that I see the WT is a sham and I have a new found love of God, I don't know how to do it with my family.
Can I suggest one of these :)
The Beginner's Bible: Timeless Children's Stories
I have loved reading it with my kids, highly recommended!
1 John 2:27 (New International Version)
27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 15:26 (New International Version)
26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you fr om the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Blessings,
Stephen
