Some thoughts on unions

by JeffT 343 Replies latest members politics

FlyingHighNow

I don't have all of the answers, just the ones that work for me and my family....
Said like a true plutocrat, only you're not wealthy enough to be one of them. You'll crash and burn with the rest of us.
DaCheech

again using vulgar language
Sam Whiskey
Looks like the Union fell in Wisconsin:
Wis. Assembly passes bill taking away union rights
AP/M.P. King, Wisconsin State Journal Assembly Democrats wave to protesters after Republicans cut off debate and rapidly voted to pass a budget repair bill in Madison, Wis.More photos »
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AP – State Reps. Jon Richards, D-Milwaukee, left, and Kelda Helen Roys (D-Madison), right, shout while approaching … By TODD RICHMOND, Associated Press – 1 hr 19 mins ago
MADISON, Wis. – Republicans in the Wisconsin Assembly took the first significant action on their plan to strip collective bargaining rights from most public workers, abruptly passing the measure early Friday morning before sleep-deprived Democrats realized what was happening.
The vote ended three straight days of punishing debate in the Assembly. But the political standoff over the bill — and the monumental protests at the state Capitol against it — appear far from over.
The Assembly's vote sent the bill on to the Senate, but minority Democrats in that house have fled to Illinois to prevent a vote and say they won't return unless Republican Gov. Scott Walker agrees to discuss a compromise. Republicans who control the Senate sent state troopers out looking for them at their homes on Thursday, but they turned up nothing.
"This kind of solidifies our resolve," Democratic Sen. Chris Larson said Friday after the Assembly vote. "If we come back, they're going to ram this through without us having a say."
Walker's contains a number of provisions he says are designed to fill the state's $137 million deficit and lay the groundwork for fixing a projected $3.6 billion shortfall in the upcoming 2011-13 budget.
The flashpoint is language that would require public workers to contribute more to their pensions and health insurance and strip them of their right to collectively bargain benefits and work conditions.
Democrats and unions see the measure as an attack on workers' rights and an attempt to cripple union support for Democrats. Union leaders say they would make pension and health care concessions if they can keep their bargaining rights, but Walker has refused to compromise.
Tens of thousands of people have jammed the Capitol since last week to protest, pounding on drums and chanting so loudly that police providing security have resorted to ear plugs. Hundreds have taken to sleeping in the building overnight, dragging in air mattresses and blankets.

Click image to see photos of the Wisconsin protest

AP/Wisconsin State Journal, M.P. King

Walker issued a statement Friday praising the Assembly for passing the bill and renewing his call for Senate Democrats to return.
"The fourteen Senate Democrats need to come home and do their jobs, just like the Assembly Democrats did," Walker said.
Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said Friday that the Assembly's passage of the bill did not change Senate Democrats' intent to stay away.
With the Senate immobilized, Assembly Republicans decided to act and convened the chamber Tuesday morning.
Democrats launched a filibuster, throwing out dozens of amendments and delivering rambling speeches. Each time Republicans tried to speed up the proceedings, Democrats rose from their seats and wailed that the GOP was stifling them.
Debate had gone on for 60 hours and 15 Democrats were still waiting to speak when the vote started around 1 a.m. Friday. Speaker Pro Tem Bill Kramer, R-Waukesha, opened the roll and closed it within seconds.
Democrats looked around, bewildered. Only 13 of the 38 Democratic members managed to vote in time.
Republicans immediately marched out of the chamber in single file. The Democrats rushed at them, pumping their fists and shouting "Shame!" and "Cowards!"
The Republicans walked past them without responding.
Democrats left the chamber stunned. The protesters greeted them with a thundering chant of "Thank you!" Some Democrats teared up. Others hugged.
"What a terrible, terrible day for Wisconsin," said Rep. Jon Richards, D-Milwaukee. "I am incensed. I am shocked."
GOP leaders in the Assembly refused to speak with reporters, but earlier Friday morning Majority Leader Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, warned Democrats that they had been given 59 hours to be heard and Republicans were ready to vote.
"I applaud the Democrats in the Assembly for earnestly debating this bill and urge their counterparts in the state Senate to return to work and do the same," Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald, R-Horicon, said in a statement issued moments after the vote.
The governor has said that if the bill does not pass by Friday, the state will miss a deadline to refinance $165 million of debt and will be forced to start issuing layoff notices next week. However, the deadline may not as strict as he says.
The nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau said earlier this week that the debt refinancing could be pushed back as late as Tuesday to achieve the savings Walker wants. Based on a similar refinancing in 2004, about two weeks are needed after the bill becomes law to complete the deal. That means if the bill is adopted by the middle of next week, the state can still meet a March 16 deadline, the Fiscal Bureau said.
Frustrated by the delay, Senate Republican Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, Jeff Fitzgerald's brother, ordered state troopers to find the missing Democrats, but they came up empty. Wisconsin law doesn't allow police to arrest the lawmakers, but Fitzgerald said he hoped the show of authority would have pressured them to return.
lisaBObeesa

Debate had gone on for 60 hours and 15 Democrats were still waiting to speak when the vote started around 1 a.m. Friday. Speaker Pro Tem Bill Kramer, R-Waukesha, opened the roll and closed it within seconds.
Democrats looked around, bewildered. Only 13 of the 38 Democratic members managed to vote in time.
What the hell is that??
Is that how it works now???
What a bunch of s***.
Its a good thing the senate Dems are are staying away. I wish I could get to Wisconsin and help with the protests.
XJW4EVR

Cashiers $14-$17 an hour
$14-$17 per hour for dragging products across a scanner? Oh, yeah! They have to stand all day. Bullshit! The only employee, in my mind, worthy of this sort of money is a butcher. He/she is a skilled employee. Dragging products across a scanner is not a skill. Any moron can do that.
lisaBObeesa

$14-$17 per hour for dragging products across a scanner? Oh, yeah! They have to stand all day. Bullshit! The only employee, in my mind, worthy of this sort
of money is a butcher. He/she is a skilled employee. Dragging products across a scanner is not a skill. Any moron can do that.
So only people with a 'skill' should be able to make $14 an hour??? $14 an hour is nothing! (and as flyinghighnow says below, it takes years to get up to that wage)
Isn't LABOR worth anything? Hard work labor??
2 liter cokes, big bags of dog food, boxes of laundry soaps, twisting, dragging, lifting bag after bag of groceries into carts all day long. That is LABOR.
You go stand in that checkstand for 8 hours from 1pm to 10 at night, go home, come back at 8 am and work until 4, go home and come back the next day and work a 4pm to 1 am shift....then have four days off because 'there arn't enough hours'..but get called at the last minute to cover a shift that you don't want to cover because you have appointments, but you have to cover it because you need the money and if you don't take the shift they will not give you next Tuesday off for your kid's birthday...
People who go to work and give their LABOR and time to the company should be able to earn a living wage. Grape pickers, ditch diggers, factory workers, janitors, the HARDEST WORKING PEOPLE in the country...should be able to earn a living wage.
lisaBObeesa

Oh, and by the way, those 'skilled' meat cutters don't do hardly any meat cutting any more. It's all pretty much open the box, take out the pre-cut, pre-packaged meat, price it and put it on the shelf. Soon, we won't need 'meat cutters' at all.
And the self-service scanner will soon remove the need for any of those greedy $14 hour checkers, too.
Then all those people can go get the only labor jobs left...a part-time job at Walmart making $8 an hour that lets them qualify for food stamps.
Good bye, American Dream.
FlyingHighNow

XJW4ever, cashiers did not start working for $14-17 an hour, they stayed loyal to the company and earned their way to that wage. Do you know that in most cities, it takes at least $14 an hour to rent a two bedroom apartment and support a family of 2-4?
Cashiers work as hard at Meijer as most factory workers. They scan your groceries and other products. They also bag them properly. There is no longer any bag help. They must do it at break neck speeds and do it all, including the transactions this fast. They have to stop the whole operation if you suddenly have forgotten something, showed up with no tag or have a dispute over a price. If you could not find a product, they have to locate it for you. Sometimes they face a line of angry customers who have had to wait while your problems was addressed. If they aren't fast, they will lose their jobs. They work holidays and they work nights and they work weekends. Some of them work overnight. They risk being scammed and even robbed so that you can walk out with your products.
I've chased people down with potroasts and meds, etc that they left on my carousel. Cashiers have to put up with grouchy customers. People are often very crabby when they must plunk out a huge proportion of their incomes for food. Dealing with rude people who use you for a scapegoat is stressful. One thing I noted: most folks were there for grocery and cleaning products, over the discount, department store items. People can't afford to buy anything but gas and food anymore. Crabby customers means more disputes and issues. You have to try to help resolve them, rather than summoning managers or sending them to the customer service line. You also have to be accurate with transactions. Sounds easy? If you get the least little bit distracted, you can cost the store or customer up to hundreds of dollars. These men and women deserve every penny they can get. Skills? Dealing with people, doing some sales? It takes skills! Sometimes I think of going back and taking a second job at it. It was good exercise. I lost pounds scanning and bagging heavy things, quickly for many hours. I also managed to do it with a smile most days.
If more stores/companies were like Costco, unions would be necessary. Costco pays $11 to start in any position in the store. They do not open on most holidays. They offer benefits and they give good wages and regular good raises. I work for CDS, inside the Costco stores. We are treated well, work hard and make decent money. But we cannot work over 24 hours per week, which most weeks is unheard of. Many Costco employees I know have college degrees. They couldn't work in their fields so they work for Costco. We CDS employees cannot work for Costco unless we quit CDS for at least 6 months.
garyneal

OK, I'll get a job a local Walmart. At least I won't complain about the wages, rather, I'll be happy with what I'm getting paid. Rather than be a whiner and wonder why I can't have a Ferrari....
Be careful what you wish for Sam Whiskey. I took a job at Wal-mart after leaving an IT job because I was tired of the political back biting and I could not find anything else in the area in my field. The experience transformed me. Before, I would always vote a Republican ticket. I even voted for Bush in 2000, but when I started working at Wal-mart in 2001 and saw the conditions the people had to deal with and the puny wages and benefits they got, I became more progressive in my thinking.
It is easy to make your comments while you work cushy jobs like yours. Try being a real wage slave and see what it is really like.
You may say, "I was a wage slave before." So was I. Before I got that IT job, I worked at Burger King and other restaurants for 6 years. But, things were different then. I cannot imagine going back to working at a Wal-mart or a restaurant with all the responsibilities I have now. But I just might be forced to.
A living wage around here is a minimum $10 / hour (and most families need two of those jobs) but the most Wal-mart and restaurants will pay is $7.25 / hour. I was making $6.00 / hour at Wal-mart between 2001 and 2003 and all Bush was doing was waging war in Iraq. I voted for Kerry in 2004 and have been voting democrat since then.
Sam Whiskey

Exactly XJ! Americans can't afford it, it's costing too much for the average guy/gal to survive because of Union jobs. That cost (Inflated Union Wages) has to be passed on somewhere, we're seeing it in every facet of the economy. Obviously a big reason why our states and schools are going broke, you can't pay these people that much money, the economics don't support it, it's destined to fail.
I'm actually looking forward to a country free of Unions, then we will see the true cost of doing business. I guarantee it will be a lot lower than it is now. It will piss off a lot of people, but... in the end this is why so companies have gone offshore to get their work done. They couldn't price their products to compete in the global marketplace. Look at China, perfect example...THEY can compete because of lower wages, it's just the way it works. When China gets too expensive, businesses will elsewhere for cheaper labor like Vietnam....extremely cheap labor there, cheaper than China by a longshot. If a country like Vietnam has a stable gubment, then companies will set up shop there. Simple as that.
The U.S. has shot itself in the foot by being the most affluent country on the planet. We wanted the easy life, and we got it. Now we're losing it, and we're pissed about it. It's just a cycle. However, in all of this turmoil, there is opportunity, you just have to look for it. And if you're too lazy to look for it, then you'll get nowhere.
Don't forget, there are millions of jobs that illegal aliens have taken from Americans.

Some thoughts on unions

Wis. Assembly passes bill taking away union rights

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