An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff 1495 Replies latest jw experiences

  • tec
    tec

    Why do believers argue?

    Some believers don't argue at all. Some just share what they know with others who do not know. Take it or leave it, that is entirely up to you.

    The fact that Christians have to constantly be on the defense is (to me) just more proof that there is something incorrect concerning their religion or beliefs. Most things that are held to be true and real (gravity for example) are NOT under constant onslaught of opposing ideas, and yet religions are (and their members hold their religion to be so true).

    This is a funny statement to me, considering what you stated earlier; I wonder if you see the irony.

    Atheists are under constant onslaught of opposing ideas, and yet you would not think that means there is something wrong with atheism. (I assume) Most things that are heldt o be true and real ARE under constant onslaught of opposing ideas... until such a time as those things beheld, are proven to be the truth.

    Opposition or agreement among men... neither of these make something true or untrue.

    All that being said, I do still agree with you that there is something wrong concerning religion. Some things in religion are so FALSE, that of course they are under scrutiny and attack.

    Why is there something rather than nothing? That's a pretty famous one used by theists of every belief. Of course it's an argument against themselves because they aren't actually assuming there once was nothing. To them there was always something, and that is their deity, and this begs the question that who created their deity?

    Well, both sides are on equal footing there, I think. Something always was... whether that be a creator, or a universe, or some sort of matter/energy. How can something come from nothing?

    They also are usually on the offensive concerning evolution. They try to poke holes in evolutionary theory and the fossil record. Of course they deny physical proof, and refuse to accept the truth (and fact) that evolution was/is/ and will happen forever until the end of species on Earth.

    Some are; some aren't. I am one who is not on the offensive concerning evolution. Makes no difference to my faith, which is based on Christ.

    When Christians are faced with opposition they only make excuses because there ISN'T a factual answer concerning any of these opposing proofs. There isn't anything that will ever satisfy us non-believers because we strive for facts and physical evidence (something that religion can't provide us with).

    Some non-believers.

    Other non-believers DO believe in things without facts or physical evidence. Aliens, for instance. Conspiracy theories. Big foot, lochness monster, whathaveyou.

    However, we are reaching a time where we will be able to disprove the Bible, the Quran, and every other religious book that has ever been written by simply using the scientific method, and hard, physical proof. And that day, my friends, will be one of the most beautiful, consciousness lifting, cloud clearing days in the history of human kind.

    Well, I won't speak for the 'bible', but I also find this statement funny, because I think we are reaching a time where some of the things Christ spoke of are going to be shown to be backed by science. Pretty cool, if you ask me.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    the biggest killers of all wars, coups, and genocides.

    Yep, dear... sorry, I cannot recall if it was WL or Uber (so peace to you, both!)...

    Wars caused by religion, coups by certain militant religious groups, and genocides of entire religions by other religions.

    Okay, not that I'm a proponent of religion (I absolutely am NOT... nor does religion have ANYTHING to do with God, regardless of what they claim!)... but I have to point out that someone very recently posted the statistics (maybe you, dear tec? - peace to you!), which showed religion to be the LEAST reason... out of about 5-6 reasons... for war. Now, I realize that this might not sit with your opinion on this... and would LOVE to join you in blaming religion, but I think that if you checked the facts you'd fine that religion is actually much less responsible for war than many other things.

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    So did we figure it out?

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    but should never let the past rule. But that is what you do. . . . N.drew

    Your a bunch of fun N.drew . . .

    Atheists are living in the past . . . but those who believe in an ancient hebrew God aren't letting the past rule . . .

    That cracks me up.

  • tec
    tec

    Not me, Shelby. (Peace to you!)

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    Why do you think it is all right for the past to equal the present?

    Well I don't . . . who does?

    The past is not equal to the present . . . it defines the present. You rose today expecting to see the sun in the sky . . . why? . . . because it was there yesterday (the past). Soon it will be dinnertime where I live . . . how do I know? . . . because the same thing happens every day. Without our accumulated past knowledge . . . we would have to learn all over again how to use the keyboard.

    Therefore the past defines the future . . . n'est pas?

    I have not seen or heard from god as yet . . . much as I have looked . . . so the past up to this point tells me he's not here . . . or anywhere. If he pops by . . . I'll have a past experience defining a new today.

  • watersprout
    watersprout
    Anyone who believes God jumps in to save or protect them and allowed John the Baptist to be beheaded is a flaming fuck-tard.

    I'm one who believes that God has stepped in for me many times and I am most certainly not a flaming f**k-tard! You seem to like your insults WL, what's the matter the WT screwing with your brain??

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    I'm one who believes that God has stepped in for me many times

    Okay... You're delusional. You're not the only one in the world, so don't feel bad. You're not even the only one in the forum. Others here believe God is speaking to them and their completely "unique" doctrine is a product of Holy Spirit granting them supernatural knowledge. God doesn't do anything for us or to us. Satan is the god of instant gratification. For example, Jesus knew he would eventually be king of kings, but Satan tempted him with the kingdoms of the earth, right then. God's already said he'll fix everything in his own time, so why would you believe he'll drop everything and violate his timetable for you? That makes you not only deluded, but narcissistic. If anyone jumped to patch up something in your life like your own personal genie, it wasn't God.

    You seem to like your insults WL, what's the matter the WT screwing with your brain??

    No, I just like to put my insults out in the open, rather than couching them pathetically in transparent guises. I can honestly say the WT never screwed with my brain. They lied to me about what they believed, then reading the WT clued me in that they reject Scripture in favor of their own idolatry. Granted, many spend years or decades of their lives preaching lies because they're too lazy to read the Bible or think, but don't pin that on me.

    Jesus said there was none greater than John the Baptist and God allowed him to have his head chopped off by a heathen. But, I guess you're special, so God takes more of an interest in your life. Hey, whatever you need to tell yourself. JW elders like to believe they're hand-picked by God to watch over his flock. I guess when one is a janitor (or some other form of loser), it's nice to dream there is a bigger plan in the grand scheme of things.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    AGuest - for someone so opposed to war you do choose an odd bedfellow since you hang out with your best bud space warlord. How is Jah's latest battle going, what's the casualty rate or is he somewhat underemployed with the defeat of Satan us atheists are dishing out by not believing in demons? I suspect the amount of time he spends one on one with you would suggest the war loving super beings are having a quiet period.

    Tec - did you even answer any question or just repost people's comments with vacuous phrases of disagreement?

    The inescapable, observed facts of the situation are:

    1 All life is attuned to pain that is in harmony with an evolution driven by brutal violent forces and the need to survive long enough to pass on genetic info. It is not in harmony with a magic world of love and peace.
    2 Any god responsible for creating this situation clearly likes to inflict pain and not intercede. The xian god myth is a prime example, his justification for all misery is the simple failure of two people to avoid eating some fruit when they were designed not to understand the consequences because they had no knowledge of good or evil. All creator gods are sadistic.
    3 The natural disasters plus the pathetic responses to prayer ( testimonies thus far professed seem to fall into the rich western kids need a cuddle realm ) especially for those ground into poverty or illness argues strongly for a god of disdain for suffering.
    4 most established religion myths involve the concept of human sacrifice at some stage with the individual adherent expected to make the slow lifetime sacrifice of their own life, the death by a thousand cuts approach.
    5 The main excuse for suffering proffered by xianity is that it is our own fault , that starvation, tsunamis, Dementia, natural abortions, disability, shoulder pain , god's recorded murders etc. are all laid firmly at our door so absolving the super magic one from culpability and any need to act positively ( in fact there will be no more help for wider mankind - it's just more responsibility free death and destruction from Jah from here on). If we want to reverse gods cursing it needs to be done by our sweat so ....why ...worship....that.....lazy...vindictive...beast?

  • watersprout
    watersprout

    Okay so i'm delusional and narcissitic?? I'm narcissitic because I say that God has looked after me! Seriously! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

    WOW! Being as you have NEVER met me, spoke to me or even exchanged emails you seem to THINK you know me... Well I will let you in on a little secret you are TOTALLY WRONG! Infact all those that know me on and off the board will tell you that you are wrong... But what would my friends know, I mean you are the expert, no?

    You are insulting and it seems to be that you are jealous because God looks after his own... That's not my problem, and you can think what you want about me, because to be frank I don't give a toss what you think... For someone who ''claims'' to have left the WT behind you certainly are still showing the traits of an ''uber elder''.

    If you do not believe in God and think all Christians are delusional then ignore us! Oh my God it's really that simple!

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