An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 63)

Well, at least I know you're not speaking of me, dear WL (peace to you!), because not one thing in your description applies to me. I don't need to do the usual bump-by-bump to show that - folks here know me well enough, either personally or through the board, to know your description is so off base it's... laughable. Hilarious, actually. BTW, just to help YOU know what you're dealing with, at least one of us has a law degree... and at least one of us is a published author. Even so, the Body of Christ is made up of people of all ilks: rich, poor, educated, uneducated, literate, illiterate, employed, unemployed, accomplished, unaccomplished, American, non-American, western, eastern, tribal... pretty much anything you can name. Because the "seed" has been scattered throughout the world.

Most of us have, however, read the Bible; even so, this means nothing: one can read... and read... and look... and look... and search the scriptures... and search the scriptures... and STILL not have clue. Why? Because interpretation belongs to God (ummmm... even the Bible says that)... and HE only provides it through HIS Servant, Christ, the "greater" Joseph.

So, rant on... you don't scare ME. To the contrary, your false accusations, allegations, and utterly ridiculous "assessment" only serves to make ME grateful that I DON'T believe... and respond to people who DO... as you do. You're catching no flies from MY household, dear one. But... good try.

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA, who doesn't care what you think - I mean, who are YOU but some guy on an Internet forum? Please...

AGuest

Buddhists don't believe in god.

Unfortunately, the self-proclaimed "literate" here don't know that, dear N.drew (peace, chile!). Would... if they read up on it, though. Given some of the responses, they don't really like to do that, either, though...

Ah, well...

Carry on, chickens... and peace to you all!

A slave of Christ,

SA

tec

tec
. ...I have to disagree...It is not within my power to stop that happening...And I doubt yours.

We can of course disagree, and I can only speak for me. I know that I could be doing more to stop things like that from happening. WAY more. Perhaps my efforts would not work... but so what? I should still be making FAR more of an effort. And if we all did that, then we might stop things like that from happening altogether.

The only person/thing/being that would have the power to stop it is God...and he chooses not to.

I agree and disagree. I believe He chooses not to stop evil with evil. He could end all suffering in the world, if he ended all those people who cause suffering. People I love would be gone. I am grateful for whatever mercy He shows to both the righteous and the unrighteous... becasue it means more time, more life, more mercy to me and to my loved ones as well.

Peace to you,

Tammy

tec

N. Drew... I think you're a gem. Don't worry about what other people think of your writing/grammar/whatever ;)

tec

Jay... not sure what you mean. How do they get to show themselves? Is that what you mean?

By the heart, and the deeds that come from the heart... if that is what you did mean.

Peace,

Tammy

still thinking

I believe He chooses not to stop evil with evil

Well, one thing we both agree on is that he chooses not to stop evil.

If he could end all the suffering in the world why doesn't he? People you love would be gone...but using your logic...that is how the world works anyway...people other people love are gone all the time...floods, disease, starvation. If that is justified, why not the people you love? And why not for a good reason? Instead of random death and destruction.

Why does he need time? Why do we need time? He already knows what is in everybodys heart. He knows who we are, what we are capable of, who is naughty or nice (I know, that was a bit naughty).... Why do people have to pay for others badness....why not deal with the badness.

If he has allowed Satan to be ruler of the earth...for what purpose? To prove himself to who? It all seems futile if he is the all knowing God.

tec

Yet, the functionally illiterate theists...

Won'tleave, you claim that the bible states that all gifts of the spirit ended (not counting love, and then hope as well). It does not state this. You are doing precisely what you are accusing others of doing. Misinterpreting and misunderstanding.

Peace,

Tammy

tec

Well, one thing we both agree on is that he chooses not to stop evil.

No, we don't agree on that :)

He does choose to stop evil... just not on the timeline we demand. On the timeline that HE knows is best.

If he could end all the suffering in the world why doesn't he? People you love would be gone...but using your logic...that is how the world works anyway...people other people love are gone all the time...floods, disease, starvation. If that is justified, why not the people you love? And why not for a good reason? Instead of random death and destruction.

People we love are gone all the time, yes... but not because God causes them to be gone. Would you rather have that kind of God?

I only said I was grateful for mercy.

He will end all the suffering. But not at the eXpense of love, or mercy, or the innocent, or those who belong to Him.

I mean, he's not under any obligation to end the suffering that we cause one another. He did tell us how to live, what to do... sent His Son to us as well.

Why does he need time? Why do we need time? He already knows what is in everybodys heart. He knows who we are, what we are capable of, who is naughty or nice (I know, that was a bit naughty).... Why do people have to pay for others badness....why not deal with the badness.

Which badness? Active crimes... or passive crimes (allowing things to happen, averting one's eyes from suffering and thereby causing it, teaching our children the same by deed, and sometimes by word... thereby continuing the cycle) We all hurt others by our actions or inactions. Where would you draw the line?

I think we need the time.

If he has allowed Satan to be ruler of the earth...for what purpose? To prove himself to who? It all seems futile if he is the all knowing God.

God isn't proving himself to anyone. He doesn't have to. He is God. As for Satan, he has no power over us that we don't give to him.

Peace,

Tammy

tec

Yahweh, Allah, and Buddha are very different gods. No one here believes in all of them.

Buddha is not a god. Yahweh and Allah (the God of Abraham) is the same God.

It can likely be safely stated that all of the believers here consider themselves superior for they have 'found the true god'.

I do not consider myself superior in any way, shape or form. So no, it cannot be safely said.

You are defending then an idea - a concept - not reality. You cannot prove that your god exists and the Buddhist god does not, can you? You and the Buddhist are equally deluded, by the same concept that has deluded superstitious men and women for centuries. And the root of that superstition is selfishness - you are too good to die forever. You are not like 'them', those evil pagans [even the starving Muslim children in Africa].

I can only assume that you are not reading anything that does not mesh with your personal idea of believers... because this is not how I feel in any way, shape or form... and this is not what I have read from other believers on this thread.

You will do this because you are afraid to die - forever dead that is.

Not afraid. Said it a couple of times now. This is how I know that what you think is wrong. Because what you think about me is wrong.

WHAT ARROGANCE! By seeking to defend your self-serving position you are willing to ignore the pain and suffering of millions of dying children every year with a whisk of the hand, saying 'God has a better plan for them'.

I don't believe anyone here has said that. Again... reading or not reading?

You blame mankind, who in his limited power has failed to overcome the difficult circumstances involved to eliminate these disasters - though he has surely tried.

Um... who do you blame?

Can you refuse forever to see that if all of mankind would drop the religious nonsense of believing in invisible beings who have to date shown precisely zero interest in solving these major problems - if just that idiocy was disbanded - perhaps mankind could find ways to solve the problem. The problem is faith. Not a lack of it. Religion has always been the barrier that divides mankind. After all - why bother? God will fix it all eventually - right?

The problem is not faith. The problem is man. His selfishness, his 'me, me', his lack of care for others, his ignorance and intolerance. Religion is and has been a problem as well, you are right about that. So is politics. So is war (fought as often - or more often - for politics, power, nations than for religion. Though religion is often used as a TOOL to further those political/power ambitions.)

Not a single person of faith that I have seen on this thread is saying ... so what?... why bother?

Peace,

tammy

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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