Well, just checking in here and must say I do enjoy a passionate discussion in any form, especially one that provokes the real in people. It is unfortunate that other beliefs on god don't have fair representation here, as the OP question does leave room to address more than just the christian concept and belief. Morality is intrinsic to the question. Other concepts of god may answer the question better, but are likely outside the parameters of what is considered "good". Another parallel but related discussion perhaps...lol Nothing no ancient Greek philosopher or spiritualistic nomad ever thought of before. The beat goes on, only the faces change. Methinks the key is education, the use of reason and personal conviction in doing what one believes is right with a net gain in the whole, not the one. If the result confirms the theory and practise, can it be wrong?
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff 1495 Replies latest jw experiences
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WontLeave
Won'tleave, you claim that the bible states that all gifts of the spirit ended
I cited the passage, corrected the false claim about the understanding, and presented evidence that the future tense of the scripture has already occurred. Every person claiming manifestations of the Spirit are frauds or insane. Nobody actually speaks in tongues, heals, or prophesies anymore. If you believe you do, then you're insane. If you're not insane and you claim you do, you're a liar.
Yahweh and Allah (the God of Abraham) is the same God.
Somebody here has never read the Qu'ran. It's a vile book with an evil god. While churches extrapolate Hellfire from Scripture, the Qu'ran states it outright.
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tec
You said that 'perfect' actually meant complete in answer to my first question. Then I asked, what difference does that make? Has that which is complete arrived?
and presented evidence that the future tense of the scripture has already occurred
Sorry, what was that evidence? That there are frauds and liars out there? I will go back and look and see if your answer got lost somewhere in all these pages, if it was other than that.
Peace,
Tammy
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tec
No, could not find anything other than that.
You are free to believe this of course. But it is something that you are e X trapolating from things you see around you. It is not 'biblical'. So perhaps you should stop calling others 'functionally illiterate' for not seeing what isn't there.
Somebody here has never read the Qu'ran. It's a vile book with an evil god. While churches extrapolate Hellfire from Scripture, the Qu'ran states it outright.
I have read some of the Qu'ran, including the parts that describe hell. Terrifying images, agreed. There are also parts that state that Allah favors mercy, and the merciful. So they have some similar understanding of God, as shown through Christ.
But my point is that Christian, Jew, Muslim... their God is the Father of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Same God. That doesn't mean that all those people KNOW God, though. Even among just one group, not all of those people know God. They just know what they're told about God, and that very often is false.
To know God, one must look at His Son.
Peace,
Tammy
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WontLeave
Sorry, what was that evidence? That there are frauds and liars out there?
Now you're just being purposely dense. Actually, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, there.
My point wasn't that there exist frauds and liars about manifestations of the Spirit. My point was that there exist exclusively frauds and nutbars claming manifestations of the Spirit. There are zero legitimate modern manifestations of the Spirit. The Bible states manifestations of the Spirit will cease when what was incomplete had been completed. What was incomplete while the Bible was being written? How about the Bible, itself? God's word. We don't need the things of a child, because we have the Word of God, in its entirety. You're trying to nurse on miracles when you were supposed to move on to the meat of truth a long time ago. While new scrolls will be handed down in the future, there have been no additions to the Bible for nearly 2000 years. There was never this much time between writings, indicating it's complete, and - lo and behold - manifestations of the Spirit have long ceased. This passage has been fulfilled, whether you admit, realize it, or delude yourself.
There are also parts that state that Allah favors mercy, and the merciful.
Yeah, I've read Muhammed's wishy-washy wanna-be Bible. It sucks and it's not a holy book; in fact, it's very unholy. Allah of the Qu'ran is more evil than Satan of the Bible. If you believe Allah and YHWH are the same then you either haven't read or can't understand the Bible or the Qu'ran.
I know some people here believe God is telling them what to believe, so they feel they have perfect doctrine. Well, I say to them: You need help. There is medication to make the voices stop. Regardless of how reassuring they are to you, they aren't real. Trust me, if God's really talking to you, the pills won't make him go away. When you take the pills and stop hearing him, it wasn't God.
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tec
I'm sorry that you think Paul was referring to the bible. He was not. Because Christ is the Word of God. You assuming that the 'complete' thing meant the bible is just that... an assumption. No reason at all to believe that it is that. No scripture. No spirit. Nothing but a misunderstanding/falsehood taught by men.
You can believe what you want. But I know that your understanding here is wrong. Just as I know your opinion of me is wrong also - insane, not having read the bible, functional illiterate, uneducated; showing that you do not have the understanding that you think you have.
Peace still,
Tammy
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soft+gentle
wow this is a long thread. But the believers have made the best point so far - N.Drew, Aguest, Tec, still thinking, psac, agonus and BTS come to mind.
they are winning hands down
edit: haven't read all of it but some pages here and there
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EntirelyPossible
EP, I started the "Pot calling the Kettle Black" on this thread. It isn't racist and AGuest's use of it isn't racist.
Thanks OTWO and Siz.
That pic was totally a joke for Shelby/Aguest, that's why there was a wink after it. I don't think anyone was being racist at all in any way, i think shelby was joking when she said folks accused her of being a black pot and I was joking in return.
In case Shelby or anyone else was offended, I apologize. What's funny in my head isn't always funny once it gets loose.
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N.drew
Aint it the truth? Chop chop!!
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AK - Jeff
Regarding the matter of God and Buddha - you are correct Nancy, that I erred in stating Buddha a god. Technically, Buddhist [or many of them] do not worship a god, as such. But they certainly practice spirituallity, and believe in a spirit world.
Buddhists do venerate Noble ones. The two main schools of Buddhism differ in this.
Theravada Buddhists view the Buddha as a human being who attained nirvana through human efforts. Mahayana Buddhists think him an embodiment of Darkmakaya and not merely a human being. Some Mahayana Buddhists worship Bodhisattva chief and hope to embody him. Buddhists do accept the existence of beings in higher realms. In fact the Buddha is often portrayed as a teacher of the gods, and superior to them. So, although they don't worship a God in the same sense as Christians and Jews and Muslims, they certainly believe that a higher spirit world affects mankind and afterlife.
Mea Culpa for not choosing one of the other more typical god-worshipping groups to mention in my post. The point was made, if you find it too confusing, then substitute another branch of Abrahamic theology.
Jeff