by Recovery 398 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
uh oh....lots of cut and paste going on here.... Let's try and use our own words and reason and not something ripped off the WT site or another JW apologetics site...
We will now show from 2 Thessalonians exactly what Paul meant and why the gifts would be done away with.
We? Yeah...this is a cut and paste.
Sigh... Christalone, if the discussion is going to amount to anything we need recovery
to express how he differentiates the two events. Ill wait for recovery to respond....EE
Ultimatley God is responsible for both events..
He`s supposed to be the All Powerful..
If he gave Satan the Power of Miracles,he can certainly take it away..
Unless Satan has been going to the Gym and..
God can`t beat him up any more..
God tried to beat me up..
So I gave him a Wedgie! ..
........................ 
...OUTLAW
AnnOMaly: Was Jesus a sorcerer or was he performing a miracle? According to the Pharisees he was using sorcery. According to Jesus and the Gospel writers he was performing a miracle by God's holy spirit. Whatever the source, the effect was the same - a man was magically/miraculously cured.
Ahh, thank you AnnoMaly for pointing this out. You have precisely showed why there is a difference between magic and a miracle. Notice that the Pharisees said: "This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·el′ze·bub, the ruler of the demons." A magic trick is something performed by the power of Satan that has supernatural repercussions (as in this case, the expelling of demons). A miracle is never performed by Satan because a miracle is something done by God, by God's holy spirit. That is why Jesus made the clear distinction between the two. They are not interchangeable. They are not synonyms. As false analogy is defined: " A false analogy is where an invalid conclusion is drawn from a comparison between two apparently similar situations, but different in the manner INVOKED."
Also the quote about Daniel is another example of a false analogy. Jehovah's Witnesses have many publications explaining spiritism and other things we consider to be false religions (such as Buddhism, Catholicism, Taoism, Islam) and so forth. There is no objection us studying such subjects. It is an entirely different thing to condone the practices of such things, which is what Jwfacts is insinuating Jehovah did with "magic tricks".
He has to cut and paste or he couldn't be in 2 places at 1 time.
Another post that has still yet to be addressed:
To those who are lurking, please go here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/miracle?page=1&qsrc=121 . It is a thesarus that lists all the synonyms and words of similar nature for the word "miracle". These are the type of synonyms you get for miracle: marvel, phenomenon, portent, rarity, spectacle, paradox, wonder, shock, unexpected, unforeseen.." Notice out of more than 400 synonyms you never see the word magic or sorcery.
Now if you use the same website and you search the thesarus for the word "magic" (http://thesaurus.com/browse/magic?s=t) you never see the word miracle as a synonym. Also, see the type of synonyms that are listed in relation to magic: "psychic, black arts, occult, witchcraft, wizardry, Satanism, demon worship, voo doo, magic spell,.."
There is an obvious distinction between the two. As if Jehovah's words weren't enough, now we have man telling us there is a big distinction as well. Anyone who refuses to see the difference is just purposely ignoring the evidence.
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A magic trick is something performed by the power of Satan that has supernatural repercussions (as in this case, the expelling of demons). A miracle is never performed by Satan because a miracle is something done by God, by God's holy spirit.
I think this is what everyone has been saying, Recovery. "Sorcery" only has to do with WHO is doing it. If God does it = OK! If Satan does it = BAD MAGIC!
That is why FANTASY MAGIC like Sparlock is not something DETESTIBLE to God. It is not performed by Satan. It is not acknowledging Satan. IT IS FANTASY! IT IS PRETEND!! It gives NO glory to any REAL spirit creature!
I think Recovery as a thing for JWFacts. You're too late Recovery, he's married and has a lovely kid. You're not his type.
Awww common recovery... Its a simple question: how do you describe the differance between moses rod turing to a snake and pharos priests rod's turning to snakes?
Hm...that's sounds slightly sexual.
jwfacts, I agree with you that there is no practical difference between magic and miracles, especially from the viewpoint of one that does not believe in magic and miracles.
However, you say:
The Bible does not say that these things [miracles, gifts, etc] would be done away with "after the restraint of the Apostles", that is what the Watchtower says. The Bible shows that the gifts would not be done away with until “that which is complete arrives” and we see “face to face”, which is a reference to going to heaven.
I don't think that is strictly a Watchtower thought. The ESV Study Bible Online 1 comments:
Interpreters differ over the time when Paul expects prophecies to pass away and tongues to cease (along with other gifts represented by these examples). The “cessationist” view is that miraculous gifts such as prophecy, healing, tongues, interpretation, and miracles were given to authenticate the apostles and their writings in the early years of the church, but those gifts “ceased” once the entire NT was written and the apostles died (c. a.d. 100). Others hold that Paul expected these gifts to continue until Christ returns, which will be the time when “the perfect” (v. 10) ways of speaking and knowing in the age to come replace the “in part” (v. 9) gifts of this age. Support for the second position is found in v. 12, which indicates that “then” (the time when these gifts will cease) is the time of Christ’s return.
So this isn't strictly a JW explaination. Also the ESV notes don't even say anything about "going to heaven," though I am not implying they are the only authority here, or are making an exhustive list of interpreter views. The view you express may be another scholarly interpretation for all I know.
1 "Study Bible Notes - 1 Corithians 13:8." ESV Study Bible Online . 25 Sept. 2012 <http://www.esvbible.org/search/1+Corinthians+13%3A8-13/>
