Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic? (page 15)

Finkelstein

I think its worthy to bare in mind that the WTS's Sparlock video and the message its implying

is just another targeting disapproval of the recent interest of magical themed books and movies

such as Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings .... etc.

Other Christian based religions have been on a pressing agenda to ban their children members

from reading these books or least remove them from their homes and burn them.

So the Sparlock video is the WTS's. version of restraining children's imagination in a very petty

nonsensical way as they describe children's imaginative play as being displeasing to god.

Since Recovery stated that all magic comes from evil spirits but the magic or miracles from the

spirit god Yahweh is all good.

Is that really the case though ?

All throughout the bible god Yahweh showed his destructive evil many times upon humanity, let alone speaking through a burning bush or donkey.

or having a large fish swallow a man whole for a couple of days only to regurgitate him out., the list could go on and on.

Its all about power though really, as who has the greater amount of ( spiritual power ) isn't it Recovery ?

Your a power seeker yourself aren't you ?

james_woods

Modern society has Penn and Teller, but even the Catholic Church is playing down "miracles".

And even Penn and Teller (and such) call themselves "illusionists" now, rather than true magicians.

james_woods

A miracle is magic used sparingly for specific and benevolent purposes.

-Sab

So killing Annanias and Saphira was not a miracle, but just plain old early christian magic?

Is it me or does Recovery have a grandious way of talking about itself? Recovery dear, you're confused yet again. NC likes pumpkin soup, if you had bothered to read closely and a bit slower you would have surmised that I don't like pumpkin or sweet potato. And I love how you brought pagans into the mix, you're smirky smugness gets the best of you I think.

rip van winkle

Still Thinking- Good observation about the glass. But, let's leave the semantics (or some antics) to our friends here. It really doesn't matter what kind of glass sits atop my head, does it? No, ST. All that matters is what we pour into it and what we drink out of it!!! Keep it pouring, I say. Now, drink up and I'll give you a refill!

Christ Alone

Recovery said: Jehovah says magic is detestable.

I didn't have the heart to read through all 8 pages of this. But I wanted to give my 2 cents.

You have to consider the context. When the word "magic" was used, it was not refering to fantasy or fantastic stories. It was refering to the use of "real" magic" as practiced by those that were under the infulence of evil. Whether you believe in evil spirits like the devil or not, this is what the scriptures were speaking about.

JWs speak out against magic. But how many of them have watched "The Wizard of Oz"? I went and saw Lord of the Ring while I was at bethel with a bunch of other bethelites.

But lets dig down deeper and consider what really IS magic. Is it just something that is unnatural and uncanny as has been brought out? Are super heros "magic"? It is not natural to have the power to fly. It is unnatural to turn invisible. Why is that NOT magic? How bout certain sci fi elements? IT is not natural to travel through time.

See, the JWs have a problem here with simple hermeneutics. They do not consider the audience that the scriptures were written to. They don't consider the culture. They don't consider what was really being taught.

Take for example the blood issue. In the Mosaic law this was a DIETARY law. It was the same sort of dietary law that forbid them from eating "unclean" creatures. The same unclean creatures that JWs WILL eat today. In the NT, the decision by the apostles was written to Christians to teach them to show a respect for LIFE and to avoid false worship. It had NOTHING to do with getting a blood transfusion to save their life.

Similarly, the forbiding of magic was written to Israellites that existed around nations that used the spirit realm and it's powers to fight against God.

There has been some back and forth that "Magic" is the same as "Miracles"....or at least similar. I will agree with that. True magic is using the unseen spirit world to cause effects in the physical world. God can do the same. The JW concept of the holy spirit seems to line up with magic. I'll admit that. They don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They think it's a force. Well, if they were honest, magic TOO is a force.

But fantasy is different from reality. We call slight of hand "MAGIC". We call inspiration "MAGIC" (as in the magic of disney). We call fantasy "magic". Is THAT sort of magic ALSO condemned by God. I think not. He was speaking about using the opposing evil world of Satan and the demons to effect a change in they physical realm. That is my stand.