by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends
If I am wrong please tell me how
Good Lordy, C, if you can't see how by NOW... NO amount of anyone else giving you "eyes" will help you "see" it. Pages of examples could be listed and tons and tons of words spoken to "tell" you. Until you WANT to see it, though... you won't. See? That knife cuts both ways, man...
A slave of Christ,
SA, who thought C meant "raising the rafters" as well, given his comment...
tons and tons of works spoken to "tell" you.
I don't rate verbosity as a virtue Shelby.
That was my point, C: not even tons of words will tell you. If not tons, certain then not a few (which has already been proven, BTW. Both, actually).
A slave of Christ,
SA
Lack of belief? Surely not?
Didn't you read what I wrote? If you don't have a belief, that is your own affair.
In one sense, I don't care. In another, I find it sad...and actually Cofty, since it's you, and as far as I'm concerned we've always been friends, you've shown clearly in the past when you've been exploring your faith that deep down you DO have an awareness of the divine...but while I do find it sad, in the sense that I am sorry that things are currently so with you, it really is entirely YOUR affair, Cofty.
I am not obliged to play the game of "give us scientific fact" or respond to being told as one atheist, scornfully, and amusingly ignorant of my background, told me that I was incapable of understanding science! LOL!
So, give you a reason to reconsider?...no, I think on balance that I won't. You can do this yourself, or not, as you choose.
Entirely up to you.
not even tons of words will tell you
Especially not tons of words.
You should try brevity sometime, it takes more effort than rhetoric but you could get the hang of it with practice.
deep down you DO have an awareness of the divine...
No, its much simpler than that. I used to be deluded, now I'm not.
If you think there might be something I've missed please share.
Char, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe. Nothing we have ever done prevents that. When you share those ideas on a discussion forum, others might chime in and criticize and challenge the ideas. Is there a problem with that? What would be you definition of allowing you to have your beliefs? Because I don't see where we actually have to power to do anything else.
For instance. I just learned some things about Mother Teresa and the Catholic Church that is quite unsavory. It really goes against the narrative that was built up around this woman in line for sainthood. If I bring it out, would that be not allowing you to believe as you wish? Would criticizing MT be considered scornful?
I don't believe Aguest's visions come from a god. I have given my reasons, and I think they are good reasons that should be considered by anyone that would take an internet's posters word for anything. Am I preventing you from believing what you choose to believe? Am I out of line for expressing such?
Just where do you draw the line, Char? Is challenge the line? Criticism? Disagreement? What would you like to see happen here?
I'm pretty sure you are still just trying to fight. You've not really added anything but anger and accusations. You have not argued any specific point. Making accusations is not the same as making a point. I would not cheer such behavior, but I see that others would. That's fine, but I do find it ironic.
You see, while you lamented that atheists attack BELIEF, YOU were in the process of just attacking atheists. You are mad at us for attacking your ideas, and you show it by attacking those of us that attack your ideas. You are attacking our ideas, but just coming after us. Interesting.
and so try not to take offense if you're not treated as "honored" guest on it. But sure, come on and crash, if that's your thing... I won't bite you. Well, not first, anyway. I might inadvertently bite you back, though, and I apologize for that in advance.
Ok...you're off again on the nonsense train.
Where did I say I wanted to be an "honored guest" And how am I crashing anything on a public forum?
And I really don't care if you bite (providing of course that you don't have rabies or something contagious) But I doubt that because of course this is an internet forum. So thats just plain silly.
People who feel the need to constantly apologize in advance always concern me. State what you have to say. No need to apologize for something you don't think you have said yet. If I felt the need to constantly apologize in advance for what I have to say, probably better not to say it if you already know it may offend and are concerned about it.
More weird!
In one sense, I don't care. In another, I find it sad...and actually Cofty, since it's you, and as far as I'm concerned we've always been friends, you've shown clearly in the past when you've been exploring your faith that deep down you DO have an awareness of the divine...but while I do find it sad, in the sense that I am sorry that things are currently so with you, it really is entirely YOUR affair, Cofty.
I find it so very sad, Char, that you believe in things that are not real. It's your business and choice, but I feel so sorry that is how you see things.
Is that okay for me to say? Would you consider that personal? Just wondering. I'm not here to defend Cofty so much as to figure out the rule book.
Char - this was my absolute fav:
I think you've misunderstood what I "clarified."
I don't think that there is as much of the ridicule or bullying or is as intense as some make out. Yes there have been some pretty nasty ones where it just turned into handbags at dawn but the real issue is still the ideas.
As an atheist I could constantly whine about believers mocking my lack of belief, belittling my experiences, downgrading my every word because it doesn't come with a divine seal of approval like theirs does. I could be bitter about being told I'm not chosen , I'm spiritually disabled (hard of hearing and seeing) or constantly being invalidated as not of the House of JarHat MyHairShirtsOnFire or some such religious order. I could but I don't . The vast majority of the time I , and others, go straight to the logical conclusion of a statement and ask a searching question (e.g. if prayers are answered why aren't everyone's) and we wait for an answer. Sometimes answers have got some merit (they attempt to answer the question rather than restate the belief in another way) but very rarely do searching theological questions arrive at any meat beyond - some stonewall about it being a personal revelation so get over it. The inevitable questions follow regarding what is the point, is there any evidence beyond some supernatural experience (that is almost always explainable by simple biology , psychology and neurology) and a refutation.
This is a standard, open discourse ways of approaching truth. There has to be more than a simple testimony for an idea to have wider application and weight amongst accepted society. That which many seem to describe as bullying is either strident questioning or rejection of an unsupported idea. When it gets personal it's normally in response to something personal stated by the argument proposer (why are atheists angry/ you need to understand/ your exprience isn't as valid as mine etc.) The less belief someone has the more they have to own their words and the less they have to rely on devices such as - 'I'm sharing what <divine proxy> wants me to tell you.'
Don't mistake lack of reverence for your idols as a personal attack. Until you make it so.
