by mP 302 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So tec...you keep repeating this. What is your point?
Are you saying we are liars and slanderers because we don't agree with your version of reality?
Ah... yeah.... no.
My point is... that there does not have to BE fault, for people to "find" fault. (such as in slandering, libeling, witchhunts, etc...) It countered your point that if there was no fault, then people would not be able to find it.
Peace,
tammy
Why, cofty. I didn't know you cared.
It always strikes me as a spectacularly poor effort by apologists when they whinge about how times were different in "days of yore".
They seem to have such mediocre expectations for god. He's supposed to be GOD! Why was it so difficult for him to tell his people of yesteryear to behave better?
A 1st century christian who thought it was bad to have sex before marriage but normal to keep slaves was an ethical imbecile.
BY modern standards Jesus was a moral cretin.
It countered your point that if there was no fault, then people would not be able to find it.
People as in WHO? Who exactly are you talking about?
I'm interested, because these are the people YOU are calling liars and slanderers.
We are discussing your god...we are finding fault...WE must be the people you are referring to as liars and slanderers.
Or aren't we?
Are you just making vague comments in the hope that someone may take it personally? I would like YOU to clarify please.
Ah... yeah.... no...tec
Which is it? Yeah or no?
Pistoff:
To say God himself approves of rape illustrates the stupidity of the tone of this thread, which has mP and Entirely Possible positing that Jesus approved of rape, racism and slavery because they don't see the words they want to see.
mP:
I will address each of the points one by one.
RAPE
TO keep this simple i will let Gods law as given to Moses speak for itself.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9986/jewish/Chapter-22.htm#v28
If a man finds a virgin girl who was not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, ??. ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ???????? ??????? ???????????: the man who lay with her shall give fifty [shekels of] silver to the girl's father, and she shall become his wife, because he violated her. He shall not send her away all the days of his life.
Its quite clear in the above that rape equates to purchasing the woman. You screwed her you bought her, its that simple.
When Jesus said in Mat 5:17 that the law was perfect, he basically said this law was perfect. There case closed. You must remember that women were not equal to men and were merely property to be bought and sold for breeding purposes. Her opinion or feelings in matters of this buying/selling didnt count. Animals cannot refused being raped, just like a women cant in the bible.
SLAVERY:
Jesus gave multiple parables isntructing slaves to be good to their masters. Not once did he make a comment that masters should free their slaves.
WHy is he wasting time telling us over and over again to pay taxes to rich Romans but never tells them slavery is wrong ? Please dont tell me it was common back then, since it was common surely he should have seen the evil of this system and made the comment. Instead he tells us to pay tax, talk about priorities.
The only way im wrong is if you find a scropture where he says slavery is wrong and that xians should not practice it. In Philemon we have a xian slave run away from a xian master. If jesus said slavery was wrong surely the master should have been reproached or he should have freed his slave to begin with to comply.
RACIST
Jesus says on multiple occassions that he only came to "save" the jews.
http://jw.org/en/publications/bible/matthew/15
In answer he said: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Still, I think you should stop trying to apply meaning to my words that are not there. I made a statement that is true... to counter your statement. I had no one in particular in mind. I had the 'deed' of slandering and lying and libeling in mind.
Which is it? Yeah or no?
The answer was no. The means was sarcasm... perhaps it does not translate well over there. But it is a common enough turn of phrase here.
Peace,
tammy
TEC:
What are your comments about the fact the Bible in its entirety is not well thought out and non contradictory but rather the thoughts of elitist priests and kings as i previous stated ?
I should over half the OT was written by kings, or priests you did not dispute this, and i also showed that the laws are always in their favour and they dont care about orphans or virgins etc.
Terry:
Great summary but it can be simplified further. The bible was created to give authority to the authors who happened to be kings and priests. No poor men, women or slaves there thats why they are always right, never punished directly and so on and nobody really cares about slavery or equal rights.
I certainly hope I am not coming across as a whinger. It is obvious that first century Christians were not required to hold to the ethics we have today.
Now, the next question is what was God doing? Does God not care? Are ethics not timeless? Is God caring but unable to intervene (internal or external rules)? Was He waiting for us to grow up? Or, the athiest answer, God doesn't exist at all other than as a human construct.
I am not applying meaning to your words. I asked you to clarify.
If you are going to make vague statements about people being liars and slanderers. Expect them to be questioned. You made a statement that did NOT apply to what was being discussed in response to a statement I made that did apply to what was being discussed, mine was NOT vague. Thank you for clarifying. I will ignore it.
I had the 'deed' of slandering and lying and libeling in mind...tec
Thats probably where YOU were misunderstood. It was in your mind. I don't read minds. I just read what you write. And I did not know who you were applying that too. It was an interesting comment just from me saying if there was no fault people would not be able to find it. (referring of course to THIS discussion)
jgnat:
Now, the next question is what was God doing? Does God not care?
mP:
He does care he gave us that 2500 year old inspired Torah which seems filled with the same cruelty of other neighbouring nations back then. WHy God would be influenced them when he gave laws about slavery is never explained by peoople like TEc. The only solution to this problem is that Moses was a fraud and made the whole Torah up. Given Jesus believed in the Torah then he must at best been a mere mortal or God really did write those pathetic laws.
