PSac
As my pastor and friend says : "As simple as it is God's Law is surprisingly impossible to keep"
Jesus and the Mosaic Law...
by mP 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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soontobe
There are 613 different commands in the law, but half of them have to do with the temple and the priesthood. So really, excluding temple worship and priestly laws, there are about 300 laws.
Furthermore, the law, in the legal sense, was for Jews only, and not for everyone (although the law did encapsulate some moral codes that are considered universal). Even today Jews will tell you the law is for them, not for others.
The fact is, most of the earliest Christians were Jews, and they continued to keep the law. Eventually, they were outnumbered by gentile Christians. Even very early on, however, we see issues regarding whether or not the gentile members had to keep the law. Jews would often not even enter the house of a gentile, because they were considered unclean. These attitudes caused a big problem in the early church. Even Peter. This issue ended up being taken up in a council of apostles in Jerusalem, which is recorded in Acts 15.
The Christian Jewish community remained in Jerusalem, and continued to practice the law (James is an example) until its final destruction in the 2nd Century. James enjoyed a high reputation among Jews, including Christian Jews. He was scrupulous in keeping the law. There are sources that say he worshipped in the temple every day. Others even say his knees were calloused like a camel's from so much kneeling in prayer. He enjoyed great respect among religious Jews. He was made the spokesman for the Jerusalem council's decision because of the weight that would attach to his words.
Some here have cited the letter to the Romans. Romans was written to the gentile Christians. The emperor Claudius had exiled the Jews from Rome (including Peter), and all that were left among the Christians were gentiles. After they were allowed to return years later, there were issues between the two groups, especially for the newer Christians who had been baptized during that time. Romans was written in part to address that situation, to help the gentile Christians accept their Jewish bretheren.
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EntirelyPossible
It always makes me chuckle at the stuff Christians have to outright make up and pretzel they have to twist logic into in order to make the scriptures in the Bible match up.
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Deputy Dog
soontobe
Romans was written to the gentile Christians.
I think you'll find there were probably more Jews in the early Roman church than gentiles, it was adressed to all. Rom 1:7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Rom 2:17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." 25 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
Look in Romans 3
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
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Ding
The law was not given to make us righteous. (Galatians 3:21)
The law was given to show us the unrighteousness within us and our need for Christ to save us through his sacrifice and for the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out. (Galatians 3:24)
I think this is why Jesus was surprised that a legal scholar like Nicodemus didn't understand his need for a spiritual rebirth or transformation (John 3).
I believe this is an important area in which the WTS misses the point completely.
The GB seems to think that righteousness comes about through self-effort and that it can be measured by external compliance with rules and regulations such as dress codes, meeting attendance, and field service hours.
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Deputy Dog
Ding
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Pterist
Ding .....
If I could add one other addition to what the GB seem to think about righteousness, is that, they trust in their own doctrinal accuracy for salvation rather than trusting solely and wholly in Jesus Christ who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
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mP
SoonToBe:
There are 613 different commands in the law, but half of them have to do with the temple and the priesthood. So really, excluding temple worship and priestly laws, there are about 300 laws.
Furthermore, the law, in the legal sense, was for Jews only, and not for everyone (although the law did encapsulate some moral codes that are considered universal). Even today Jews will tell you the law is for them, not for others.
mP:
Your background commentary is all trueand very interesting, but that doesnt conflict with my original assertion. Jesus only preached to the Jews and he never cancelled or replaced the Torah. Categorising laws doesnt change the fact they are there. The real assertion by me remains unchallenged and true. To say otherwise is yet another lie in the Xian list of many lies.
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mP
SoonToBe:
Some here have cited the letter to the Romans. Romans was written to the gentile Christians. The emperor Claudius had exiled the Jews from Rome (including Peter), and all that were left among the Christians were gentiles. After they were allowed to return years later, there were issues between the two groups, especially for the newer Christians who had been baptized during that time. Romans was written in part to address that situation, to help the gentile Christians accept their Jewish bretheren.
mP:
What proof do you have they were gentle xians ? How can you call them gentle when a large portion of them wont even eat with gentiles simply because of their race ?
Actually if you do some research, you will find the jews in the first century were anytihhng but gentle. They make th eTaliban look like a picnic. This is why the Romans sent 3 legions to destroy Jerusalem and the temple, because they were sick of the false Messiahs using the religion to foster support for rebellion. The Romans were not stupid, they didnt just destroy stuff for fun, you cant take tax from a rubble, but you must keep law and order and respect for authority.
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mP
Ding:
The law was not given to make us righteous. (Galatians 3:21)
The law was given to show us the unrighteousness within us and our need for Christ to save us through his sacrifice and for the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out. (Galatians 3:24)
mP:
What in the world does the first scripture actually mean ? What information do i take from that ? Paul certain is not saying that Jesus cancelled the law, but rather he acknowledges it still exists and is applicable. The second scripture backs my assertion up as well. NO whree does Paul say the law is over do this instead etc.