How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP 229 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  Deputy Dog

  mP

  So many comments and not a single scripture.

  DD

  We've given many and you've rejected them.

  MP

  You claim me and others break Moses law, and yet so many who have responded until recently (and thats limited to TEC) have failed to quote Moses. Your group is always quoting Jeremiah, Paul etc which are irrelevant because they did not define the law. If you want to demonstrate my assertion was wrong then you must quote the source, not a third party giving commentary. The authority of Moses law if you accept it as Gods will have priority over Jeremiah and Paul who were mere mortals.
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  tec

  Oh my, mP... I don't even think the fastest talking lawyer could use the excuses and non-existent loopholes that you have used to twist simple laws into saying something other than what they say... and... have any judge, anywhere, buy it. Unless the language that lawyer and judge used was green, that is ;)

  Im sorry i have never slandered you

  I wasn't talking about me... though I can see now that you assume that I also approve of rape, lol. (and I'm sorry, but if you think that slander vs. libel gives some sort of get out of jail free card loophole... well, see above regarding the green language)

  Anyway, it is not for me to convince you of anything about yourself. If you claim that you are golden, you do no wrong, commit no sin... well, there you go. But the rest of us, those of us who do know that we sin and do wrong, and that we DO need Christ... surely you do not mind that we are thankful we have someone to intercede for us, because WE know that WE need HIM. And if you do mind, I don't think that matters to anyone but you.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  mP

  TEC:

  wasn't talking about me... though I can see now that you assume that I also approve of rape, lol. (and I'm sorry, but if you think that slander vs. libel gives some sort of get out of jail free card loophole... well, see above regarding the green language)

  MP:

  Its hard to tell sometimes because we people dont use our nicks but rather say YOU which can be anyone here. I know you dont approve of rape personally and would never sayanything remotely close to that.

  THe problem is Jesus didnt try very hard to counter these evils and he was supposed to be a moral teacher. Your entire argument about Jesus relies on the assumption he did not endorse the law of Moses and that he provided a replacement. I have already addressed why this argment fails. The actuality is Jesus wa a typical jew of that time and thats why his actions and views reflect that age. I have already shown that "love they neighbour" means diff things back then. The jews in the law of moses had the same scripture but they stiill raped and practiced slavery all the while loving their neighbour. THis is possible because the feel of the text is way different and you are imposing your cultural bias on their primitive views.
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  mP

  TEC

  Anyway, it is not for me to convince you of anything about yourself. If you claim that you are golden, you do no wrong, commit no sin... well, there you go.

  MP:

  Im not claiming im golden, im average, i have said on multiple occassssions here that most people are the same as me. I have never claimed at any time to be better, thats *dishonest* i have alwaywas claimed to be average.

  This guilt complex of imaginery evils is unhealthy. People here worry about little white nonsense lies, and Jews back then didnt worry about slavery. It shows you have warped the objectives of the law and make it morally good for our times when it was not.
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  tec

  Its hard to tell sometimes because we people dont use our nicks but rather say YOU which can be anyone here. I know you dont approve of rape personally and would never sayanything remotely close to that.

  I know, mP. I know you don't think I approve of rape. But thinking that Christ does, is more silly than thinking that I might.

  You CANNOT love your neighbor as yourself... and also rape them. At the very least... even in those times... you dishonor the girl, and you insult her father (or whatever male speaks for her).

  Your entire argument about Jesus relies on the assumption he did not endorse the law of Moses and that he provided a replacement.

  I have not made such an argument. There is nothing wrong with the law... but it does not save anyone... and it does not always reflect the TRUTH. Sometimes it just reflects allowances made for the people, and 'damage control'. And in many instances, Christ DID replace a written law. ("You have heard it said, eye for eye... but I tell you now, if someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also) That is a replacement. You can find many like that in the gospels. I desire mercy, not sacrifice (instead of stoning those that the law called to be stoned) Also a replacement.

  But bottom line... the law provided the people with a tutor (something to teach them about sin in themselves); until Christ came. Once He is here, then we look to HIM. He saves; the law does not.

  I have already shown that "love they neighbour" means diff things back then. The jews in the law of moses had the same scripture but they stiill raped and practiced slavery all the while loving their neighbour.

  Which is why Christ gave the parable of the good samaritan. Showing that your 'neighbor' is more than just your particular tribe. Besides, Christ said that we are to do love our enemies, and do good to them as well.

  He kinda crossed his t's, and dotted his i's, on this one.

  I'm not going to get into the same old argument with you, though.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  mP

  TEC

  You CANNOT love your neighbor as yourself... and also rape them.

  MP:

  I will use your own BIble to show you that Jehovah in Lev says to love thy neighbour(lev 19) and then Moses writes down its okay to enslave and rape(deu 20). Its there in the Bible and Jesus said the Torah didnt need to be changed. How can anybody say that when it has rape , and genocide as some of its laws.

  The problem is your see everyone equal (which is great) but unfortunately in olden days there was all sorts of bigotry based on race, religion, legitimacy, class and many others which are fading away today and thats why our world is a better place. Many of the scriptures imply a racist angle which you are blind to seeing.

  When you see others as less than human its okay to enslave them because the rules dont apply. We can see the same thing in the US constitution 200 years ago. ALl men are created equal ... and free blah blah, but the Blacks were still slaves. THe easy answer is because the y werent men, they were less and thats how the law & society got around that problem.

  THe problem is you assume everyone is as fair as yourself when that is simply untrue of the past. I think we would all be shocked at the cruel world and how people treated each other if we went back to the times of Isaiah or Moses. It would be quite a culture shock, much worse than Taliban Afhganistan. Because you have never seen it you dont know just how bad it was.

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/leviticus/19

  18 “‘You must not take vengeance nor have a grudge against the sons of your people; and you must love your fellow as yourself. I am Jehovah.
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  mP

  TEC

  There is nothing wrong with the law...

  MP:

  How can you say that about a law that allows rape and slavery.

  TEC

  but it does not save anyone..

  MP:

  Thats nonsense. Nobody needs to be saved from American law, or Australian law today. They arent perfect but if your reasonably good you have nothing to worry about. I have never heard anyone crying out for someone to completely replace both laws because they are utter crap. Perhaps that was true 50 yrs ago but times have progressed.

  God save the Queen.
• 

  mP

  I have already shown that "love they neighbour" means diff things back then. The jews in the law of moses had the same scripture but they stiill raped and practiced slavery all the while loving their neighbour.

  TEC

  Which is why Christ gave the parable of the good samaritan. Showing that your 'neighbor' is more than just your particular tribe. Besides, Christ said that we are to do love our enemies, and do good to them as well.

  MP:

  The Samaritans parable interestingly shows a Samaritan helping a Jew and not the other way around. At no time does Jesus talk of a jew helping a non jew. The same was true in the AMerican south, blacks served whites , but it was never the other way around.

  And yet Jesus taught his apostles to love their neighbours so well they wouldnt even eat with them as the Peter and Paul arguments tell us. Your assuming way too much of "what a neighbour" is. Jesus was talking too jews about jews.

  TEC

  He kinda crossed his t's, and dotted his i's, on this one.

  MP:

  No he didnt because he didnt reverse the situation and show a jew helping a non jew. That would have been ground breaking as the jews back then didnt like and would rarely help others. Thats what got Judea into trouble in the first place. Go read your history books and you will see this is why the Romans came to destroy Jerusalem, because the Jews wouldnt live peacefully with their neighbours. THe rest of the empire was multicultural but the jews wouldnt mix. That was their downfall, the Bible taught them to be racist and it cost them when they kept this attitude and the EMpire came down on them hard.
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  tec

  Not going to respond to the stuff that we've already hashed out continuously, but you have some new stuff that shows your misunderstanding:

  Nobody needs to be saved from American law, or Australian law today.

  No one is saying that a person needs to be saved from the law. I'm not sure how you even got that.

  People need to be saved from... sin and death.

  The law does not do this. The law saved no one.

  Christ saves us from sin and death. That is why we are to look to HIM.

  Your assuming way too much of "what a neighbour" is

  Christ is clear on who a neighbour is... but if you don't understand his lesson, then perhaps you should consider that your own blindness.

  Besides which... he said neighbor AND enemy. You left that part out in your explanation.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Deputy Dog

  mP

  You claim me and others break Moses law, and yet so many who have responded until recently (and thats limited to TEC) have failed to quote Moses. Your group is always quoting Jeremiah, Paul etc which are irrelevant because they did not define the law. If you want to demonstrate my assertion was wrong then you must quote the source, not a third party giving commentary. The authority of Moses law if you accept it as Gods will have priority over Jeremiah and Paul who were mere mortals.

  That's just not true. Any quote from the first 5 books of the bible are quotes of the law of Moses. Do you think you can find the ten commandments? They are clear and easy to understand.

  Exo 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before [1] me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. 12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. 13 "You shall not murder. 14 "You shall not commit adultery. 15 "You shall not steal. 16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

  Many have asked you if you about coveting, lying and stealing yet you refuse to apply it to yourself. You believe either you are above such laws or that they don’t apply to you. OK Fine. You are the perfect Pharisee. The only logical conclusion one can draw is that you think that if there is a God he will be FORCED to accept YOU on the basis of YOUR righteousness. Jesus didn’t waste time arguing with people like that, why should I?

  I don’t believe you can keep your own law (and I believe that is enough to condemn you), let alone GOD’s LAW.

  The bottom line in all this IS: Have YOU ever broken any part of God’s LAW? YES or NO? Like stealing ANYTHING ($0.01 to $1,000,000,000.00 it doesn’t matter)? If so you have broken GOD’s LAW.