by mP 229 Replies latest watchtower bible
Village:
Theres so much wrong with your statement. It shows you have never read the actual law and how flawed and wrong it was. Most of what you said cannot be backed up by the bible as i have demonstrated ithrougout this post.
Show me one law of Moses that i have broken. You must give a scripture and quote it othewise it doesnt count.
Christ Alone
mP
Good job!
mP is a great example of the type (mindset) that Jesus did NOT come for. He came to cause sinners to repent. As Jews the Pharisees saw the tax collectors as sinners because they stole from the people.
Mat 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.13 Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
I love this translation.
Mat 9:12 When Jesus heard that, he said, "Healthy people don't need a doctor; those who are sick do. 13 Learn what this means: 'I want mercy, not sacrifices.' I've come to call sinners, not people who think they have God's approval."
He thinks he can force God to give his approval on a “technicality”. I guess he thinks God's love can be demanded.
If by the law you mean the law of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), the law pointed to Jesus. The law was incomplete in that it was only meant to show our need for Christ’s acceptability to God the Father.
The first clear prophesy of Christ is found in Genesis
Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
The rest of the “law of Moses” was to point to that fulfillment. Jews still await this fulfillment (during the Temple periods it was the hope of every Jewish woman to be the one who delivered this promise), Christians believe it is fulfilled in Christ.
DeputyDog:
Its good to see you can attack me, but you cant find actually address my challenge. You quote everybody but Moses.
DD"
Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
MP:
Given the text mentions a woman, when did Jesus fight or kick or bruise a woman ? When did a women hit , scratch whatever bruise him ? Where is jssus mentioned ? How does "HE" equate to jesus when jesus is never mentioned by name or by title (son of god) anywhere in the OT let alone Gensis.
Please quote the scripture, otherwise apologise for lying.
DD:
I have asked others and im pretty sure that includes you, if not i apologise.
Im summary Christians claim that jesus died for our sins to save us from the breaking hte law of Moses. So please tell me which laws did i break from Moses ? There are many evil laws written by Moses, slavery etc, and they are certainly not what you think they are. Lying, rape etc are not banned by Moses. Others have said lying is banned by Moses but they cant show a single scripture that says DO NOT LIE.
Amazing but true. Before you writ eup a witty petty remark, i would suggest that you actually look at the bible and read what it says. I previously gave a list compiled by rabbis for 2000 years where they have listed every single law of moses. Read it and then ask yourself have i broken any of those laws. You will be suprised.
Just quoting Matthew does not make you right any more than a Taliban quoting their hadiths and Koran make them right. You claim to be bible based and the bible claims we break the law. THe only law in that context is moses law. So stick to quoting to moses ifyou want to find fault wiht me. I cant handle it. Please check moses law otherwise refrain from nonsense ad hominem attacks or judgements.
mP
The fact that you feel attacted by me quoting scriture is telling. I'm glad you do understand them. Maybe they'll sink in someday.
I didn't see the value in discussing whether you personally, mP, have broken any of those laws, so I haven't talked about that before now. It seems tangential to the point that I and others have been trying to make. But since you seem obsessed with proving your compliance to old Jewish laws, I'll bite... surely you don't claim to be keeping all the practices described in Maimonides' list of 613 mitzvot which you referred to earlier? These include:
- Not shaving the beard (law 68/69)
- Wearing phylacteries (law 79/80)
- Saying the Shema prayer twice a day (law 76)
- Not marrying non-Jews (law 162)
as well as one that non-Jews sometimes keep, which I also doubt you're following:
- Keeping the Sabbath (law 87, and many others)
I would estimate that over 50% of these laws are probably not being kept by you, but of course I don't know you. Christ Alone understandably asked you if you were a Jew and you denied that it was relevant, but it was very relevant because non-Jews do not try to keep most of these commandments.
I have to assume you were actually talking about keeping the "bigger" laws concerned with morality such as "thou shalt not kill", except that all 613 of these laws were considered to be connected to morality. Some laws, about seemingly inconsequential things like beards and clothing, served to distinguish God's people from Gentiles, so one's compliance with these was a necessary aspect of true worship.
More importantly, I'd like to know why we have to prove that you have broken one of the mitzvot. What is your point? I could take a guess, but I'd rather hear you say it yourself instead of guessing wrong and being told not to put words in your mouth.
If you claim to be healthy, righteous, no sin... then Matt 9:12 is a good verse.
mP, it is not for others to point out your sins or to judge you for them. But just so you aware what some of those laws are, since you are putting your faith in them and moses, so that you can apply them to yourself:
Leviticus 19:11
"Do not steal." (there is no addendum stating you can steal from a corporation, but just not from your neighbor)
"Do not lie." (you have been stating that there is no such verse)
"Do not deceive on another."
Leviticus 19:16
"Do not go about spreading slander among your people." (Sort of like saying that someone is a racist or approves of rape and pedophelia, based purely on your own assumptions, perhaps?)
Peace,
tammy
Tec
I'm puzzled as to why mP would be offended by something he himself doesn't even believe is a sin in the first place.
I don't expect mP to tell the truth, after all he's not in court and doesn't believe he can be judged for it.
Why does he condemn others for it, if it's not a sin?
MP doesn't believe in Judaism anyway, since he is an atheist. This is his angle to try and "prove" Christanity false. But I think it's been shown that he doesn't really understand Judaism either. To say, "Show me one law of Moses that I have violated" is sort of funny. If you've eated a lobster, you violated the law. MP says he has never lied or stolen (at least from a neighbor). That's fine. I don't know him. But I find it unlikely.
I do believe you missed my point, MP, about LAW. And to those of you who missed it too, I DO believe in original sin. I was trying to show how modern Jews are wrong to reject it. There has always been sin since there was a law that was broken. Without law, there is no sin. There was no sin before God gave Adam and Eve the Law of not eating from the tree. Once they disobeyed the law, there was now sin.
My comparisson to a countries law is just an illustration. If there is no speed limit, I can go 90 MPH and not be breaking the law. But once there is a posted 65MPH speed limit, I can then break the law. And Paul discussed that in detail. Without the law, he did not know that coveting was wrong. But once there was a law about it, it made him understand that it was a sin.
To argue that sin is not in the Bible is almost too ridiculous to argue. TO say that you have never broken a law of Moses, is doubly so.
