AAWA, J M____ E______, and me

by zed is dead 577 Replies latest members private

• 

  fizzywiglet

  I have not suggested the extent is little or big.

  I have shared what I’ve been able to confirm.

  Juan Viejo (John Hoyle, a member of their board) already confirmed the extent. "Over 1,000" is what he said (though he was either disingenuous or uninformed about who was responsible for adding over 1,000 people, but he did confirm that that many were added en masse without permission). He also confirmed that he saw Watchtower apologists and those with no history of or interest in ex-JW activism force-added. So, why are they retaining those people as "members"?

  Cedars did not dispute any of this, in fact he thanked Juan for summing up and said that AAWA would not discuss the matter further. We've asked Cedars directly several times about retaining 1,000 people who include apologists/moles and faders with no interest in activism, in a "secret" group where all members can see each other's names. I asked him point-blank about this and he refused to answer; instead he just kept asking me to "prove" I was harmed, which is not the point - I left the group; we are discussing the other force-adds they have potentially put at risk by refusing to remove them.

  Then, a couple days later, right on cue, people start coming out of the woodwork claiming they were added without knowledge and their JW family or elders found out - one person even said his elders have "screenshots" and sounds like they're forming a judicial committee.
• 

  Dagney

  (rushing to go to a meeting..)

  fizzy, didn't you post that it was against Facebook rules to have more than one account, and using an alias, or something like that. Why would a President of a Corporation tell people on a public forum to break those rules?

  Becareful everybody. I just locked down the groups I'm in on FB, thank you again AAWA for ruining a perfectly good thing. Big ruiners.
• 

  Dismissing servant

  "It seems to me that ego is playing an huge role in the correction of this mistake. I'm not one to cover up when I have made a mistake. Apologize straight-away, sincerely, and most folk will accept that. Therein lies the problem in this situation.
  
  This is a group of people who were abused by a cult, and are newly exploring their freedom. They are ANGRY, and want to help others escape the clutches of this nefarious book publishing company. They made a mistake, in their passion to get started. Okay, that's understandable. You've made a mistake. Stop making excuses, stop the lies, and just FIX IT. This is the problem that I have with the administrators / board members, whatever.... be accountable,,,, be responsible ... protect the very people you claim you want to help."

  I am afraid you are right, this is not rational behavior..it's about psychology. I would guess that there are conflicts in the AAWA board right now....I think this is a reason why their website is down.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  lost,

  A lot of what you write above is accurate. I am here to make my own independent assessment in order to decide if I want to collaborate with the AAWA initiative or not, or with individuals in AAWA’s leadership.

  That I have to keep repeating this is somewhat troublesome.

  My approach is to ask precise questions and to accept answers to precise questions on the same terms. When asked for clarification I give it.

  I think much of the frustration and angst directed toward me in this discussion is a result of individuals transposing their conception of my statements onto my statements rather than taking my statements for what they actually say in precise terms. This is not to suggest these individuals intended anything bad.

  A recent example of this has to do with a presumed importance to me of having an exact number of who were force added to a Facebook page. I’ve never been concerned with an exact number, but a participant transposed that notion onto things I’ve said and others responded to it as though fact.

  The questions I wanted answers to when I engaged this discussion have been answered.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  Simon

  The Ex Jehovah's Witness Recovery 3 Facebook group is being watched. We found that out last week when two elders showed up at someone's door telling her they knew she was participating on the group, as was her sister. They were looking to find a time to confront the second person as well. I guess we'll see what comes of it.

  This website is much safer and more secure because of its high level of anonymity. On Facebook it's a whole different world and with new people joining just about every day, the likelihood of there being JW spies is quite high. The general consensus is LET THEM! Who knows maybe they will even learn something, but it does make some people pretty nervous and some are using fake profiles out of fear.

  That sounds so muck like the attitude of an activist who thinks other people can be treated as fodder in their cannons.

  Amazing level of hypocrisy and shameful behavior: this demonstrates that she knew the risks but did it anyway - IMO that takes it out of the realm of "mistake due to overenthusiasm" and into it being pre-meditated and knowingly putting other people at harm because she believes that is what people should be doing and, well, she's happy to make that decision for them.
• 

  fizzywiglet

  fizzy, didn't you post that it was against Facebook rules to have more than one account, and using an alias, or something like that. Why would a President of a Corporation tell people on a public forum to break those rules?

  Technically, yeah, it is - they do not allow fake names or multiple profiles. A lot of people do use aliases on Facebook and I think they should be able to do that if they want. But Facebook has already been sued over its "real names only" policy and won in a court of law. If Facebook finds out that you have multiple profiles or are using an alias, they will generally delete not only your "fake" profile, but any other profiles that they can link to you, including your "real" one. I run two business pages and have a personal profile with my real name that I use to keep in contact with my "real life" friends and business contacts. Personally, it's not worth the risk to me having those deleted; I've put several years of my life into building those relationships and cultivating those contacts.
• 

  tornapart

  Simon, I didn't want to believe it when I first read it but I think you're right. The same attitude as the guy in the thread heading..
• 

  Simon

  The trouble with suggesting that people should break other 3rd party rules like facebook is that it puts you in the situation of being unable to really complain if people then break your rules and requirements.

  Really, if as it appears they knew facebook was unsuitable for this then they simply should have chosen something else. Facebook certainly isn't mandatory. Unsuitable could be because of how others use it and also because of their rules and policies. You can't just pretend those things don't apply.

  I presume there is a way to report abuse / fake profiles to facebook? Seems like a pretty easy way to take an organizations 'presence' down and not really a 'good plan' if you want to go toe-to-toe with a much bigger corporation.
• 

  tornapart

  I wrote this on another thread, I don't know why they don't do it....

  " I think they should shut the FB group completely and start a forum attached (or linked) to their website. (maybe that's what they're doing?)

  Anyone could join either as themselves or anonymously and everyone would be happy. No one would be forced joined to it, or be outed. It would be open for all to see, or have private areas just for registered members.

  The FB group was a disaster waiting to happen, who knows how many people have had their real identity exposed without their permission and their JW family and friends being able to see that the'd joined a FB group called 'Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists'..............."
• 

  Tylinbrando

  Facebook TOS:

  Facebook users provide their real names and information, and we need your help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relating to registering and maintaining the security of your account:

  1. You will not provide any false personal information on Facebook, or create an account for anyone other than yourself without permission.
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  5. You will not use Facebook if you are under 13.
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  10. If you select a username or similar identifier for your account or Page, we reserve the right to remove or reclaim it if we believe it is appropriate (such as when a trademark owner complains about a username that does not closely relate to a user's actual name).