How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them? (page 16)

latinthunder

So it sounds like you'd agree, then: with God, "might makes right".

NOW, is that a MORAL stance to take?

God uses might after diplomacy has failed. The fable of Exodus illustrates this well.

adamah

LatinThunder said-

Since God is the originator of ALL laws, He is effectively considered Truth itself which cannot ever be false.

Does that mean God can violate his OWN Divine Will? Can God get "new light", as it were? Can God change his own mind?

(And remember the scripture: "God is not a man, such that he can change his mind")

Adam

latinthunder

My conclusions about god have nothing to do with anything that happened to me.
Shit happens. Teleology is a fantasy.
You are advocating ethics by divine fiat and you are having to perform mental gymnastics.
Try assuming there is no god. Live with the idea for a while. You will discover the world all starts to make perfect sense.

You didn't answer my question. Did you learn anything from the sufferings you have endured throughout your life?

cofty

Yes I learned shit happens and asking "why?" is for fools.

Do you have a point?

latinthunder

Does that mean God can violate his OWN Divine Will? Can God get "new light", as it were? Can God change his own mind?

God violating His own will would be like you trying to stop yourself from breathing until you expired. God doesn't "change" his mind, he just continues to exist as He always has. If you look at existence billions of years ago you might get the idea that God has changed, but that's because we are so limited in our understanding of God. Every day we continue to bridge that gap as we inch closer and closer to eternity with Him.

latinthunder

Yes I learned shit happens and asking "why?" is for fools.
Do you have a point?

Sounds like you need at least another run. Hope the next one goes better for you.

cofty

Hope the next one goes better for you.

Better than what? My life is good thanks, not perfect but good.

As usual the superstitious lobby have got nothing to offer except smug platitudes.

You do more to make christianity sound offensive than atheists ever can.

adamah

God uses might after diplomacy has failed. The fable of Exodus illustrates this well.

Care to explain? The account clearly states that God interfered with Pharoahs free will by "hardening his heart" to make his refuse: the pharaoh WANTED to do what Moses asked, but the Bible clearly states God needed an excuse to put on a magic show:

Exodus 4

4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.

4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

So, do you care to admit that you're WRONG, and you don't actually know your own Bible as well as you probably SHOULD?

The Exodus example you cited instead PROVES God doesn't "use power only after diplomacy fails" (as you falsely claimed), but instead sees nothing wrong with interfering with mortal's FREE WILL to serve as an EXCUSE to display his power? Does that seem as negotiating in "good faith" to you? Or is that excused by "Might Makes Right", too?

Adam

Seraphim23

Cofty I don’t justify genocide by God or anyone else which is why I don’t think he commits it, nor do I agree with physical death being only physical death as a logical justification for genocide, no matter who says so, including fellow Christians. Logically genocide is rendered ultimately pointless if death isn’t the end. God killing people on a case by case basis could be justified if it saves more lives as with the death penalty within a judicial system. However the reason for physical life if known would also have a bearing on the case for God being a moral monster or not because the value of a thing, including life is always going to be a function of its purpose. If you say you don’t know the purpose of life, or that it doesn’t have one, you have not made a logical case for God being a moral monster. Of course you don’t believe God exists anyway, so you’re not in a position to say he is a moral monster as non-existent moral monsters do not exist. If God does exist, then you haven’t made the case either. The only case you have made is against the literal and fundamentalist interpretation of God from the bible. In that I agree with you.

latinthunder

Care to explain? The account clearly states that God interfered with Pharoahs free will by "hardening his heart" to make his refuse: the pharaoh WANTED to do what Moses asked, but the Bible clearly states God needed an excuse to put on a magic show:

Pharaoh first hardened his heart by himself and showed no respect for the God of Moses (Exodus 7:13). Like I said, if you don't honor electricity you get electrocuted. Pharaoh got "electrocuted" by God because he hardened his heart when he could have freed Israel from enslavement. God didn't come in with guns a blazing, he came in with an official diplomat, who was raised in Egypt. God worsened Pharaoh's punishment and made him an example because he was so obstinate; it was a just fate. Moses' God demonstrated his true power over mind, body and spirit. Egypt and it's demi-gods were nothing when they claimed they were everything. You don't mess with the Creator of all things.

So, do you care to admit that you're WRONG, and you don't actually know your own Bible as well as you probably SHOULD?

It's you who seem to lack understanding of the story. I would suggest more study.

The Exodus example you cited instead PROVES God doesn't "use power only after diplomacy fails" (as you falsely claimed), but instead sees nothing wrong with interfering with mortal's FREE WILL to serve as an EXCUSE to display his power? Does that seem as negotiating in "good faith" to you? Or is that excused by "Might Makes Right", too?

No, it proves he uses diplomacy, but is not above inflicting extreme punishment for extreme violations of his laws.

How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them?

Share this