by braincleaned 88 Replies latest watchtower bible
Creationists are not consistant with their otherwise apparant logic:
Nothing comes from nothing — Check √
Everything has a beginning — Check √
The universe cannot come from nothing — Check √
Now we move the goalposts:
God created the universe from nothing — Check √
Everything has a beginning. um... except God — Check √
(Studio Laugh Track)
A clarification to the above video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRn-mVPIl60&feature=youtu.be&t=6m42s
If this is in regard to my statement on another thread (and I think it is because you made these same comments there), that God always was, and He had no beginning... I have never made the argument that you lay out in your OP.
I would never say that EVERYTHING has a beginning, because then there IS a breakdown in logic. Because God does not have a beginning.
No goal post was moved.
Peace to you,
tammy
Nothing comes from nothing — Check √
Check. (well, there is a new "Nothing" that is not the same as an absence of anything/everything, making the word nothing more ambiguos than it used to be. So nothing comes from an absence of anything/everything... check)
Everything has a beginning — Check √
No. God does not have a beginning.
The universe cannot come from nothing — Check √
Same as above.
Now we move the goalposts:
God created the universe from nothing — Check √
No. Since God is not nothing (the absence of anything/everything)... this is untrue. Everything came from HIM. From HIS energy, that brought forth LIGHT/LIFE.
(though the statement... God created the universe from "Nothing"... the new definition, is not much different than what that physicist is saying (other than the God part), in that that the universe came from "Nothing". Because "Nothing" isn't nothing)
Everything has a beginning. um... except God — Check √
No goal posts have been moved to make that statement.
What came FROM God had a beginning. But God, Himself, always WAS.
Peace,
tammy
Braincleaned said-
Nothing comes from nothing — Check √
Everything has a beginning — Check √
The universe cannot come from nothing — Check √
Now we move the goalposts:
God created the universe from nothing — Check √
Everything has a beginning. um... except God — Check √
Yup. It's called "special pleading", asking for permission for THEIR Gods to be excused from the rules.
And then when confronted with a challenge, they usually make a bare-faced denial of even attempting it, saying stuff like, eg
No goal post was moved.
Most believers deep down really don't think the rules of logic apply to them and their Gods, since they're acting on behalf of Gods who are on their side(s) and they just KNOW they're right without producing a shred of evidence or logic to justify their beliefs.
Adam
Everything has a beginning — Check √
You say, "No. God does not have a beginning."
Exaclty my point — you are changing the goalpost — with absoluetly NO evidence!
Duh...
But I never said to begin with that everything has a beginning.
So I did not move ANY goal post.
To move a goalpost you have to have at first set the goalpost in one place (like saying everything has a beginning)... and then move it. But my goalpost was never there (everything has a beginning) to begin with.
Do you see?
Peace,
tammy
Tec,
"What came FROM God had a beginning. But God, Himself, always WAS."
You obviously have not even taken the time to see these videos.
Your argument is totally in your head, as there no observable example of ANYTHING coming into existence "ex-Nihilo" or from nothing.
What you and your fellow believers argue is that God has always existed (with of course, no evidence) AND that he made the Universe come to be from nothing other than his own existance. And to argue this, you are are using 'creatio ex materia' examples to defend 'create ex-Nihilo' claims.
You go even further, and I must admit I need to think about this — you say "Since God is not nothing (the absence of anything/everything)... this is untrue. Everything came from HIM. From HIS energy, that brought forth LIGHT/LIFE."
This is yet a new spin for me; because this is NOT what the Bible not other creation stories claim at all. I need to dig deeper in this claim of yours and where you get the idea that God had the elements to make the Universe.
//
(though the statement... God created the universe from "Nothing"... the new definition, is not much different than what that physicist is saying (other than the God part), in that that the universe came from "Nothing". Because "Nothing" isn't nothing)
//
I do not believe the Universe comes from nothing. I beleive the Big Bang to be part of an infinit cycle. Something you should understand well, since you believe God is infinite too. My main problem with that, is which "god" are we talking about here? I don't dispute the idea of an intellegent creative force, but I do dispute the existance of the folkloric Abrahamic God.
