Yes, I agree with that snare&racket.
But you and I are also proof that some DO think, admit they don't know, and do their homework. ;)
Changing the Goalposts
by braincleaned 88 Replies latest watchtower bible
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braincleaned
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Jeffro
snare&racket:
Do people here know that the big bang (i.e, a singularity that resulted in the formstion of our universe) is not a theory?
It is a theory. But most people don't seem to understand what theory means in a scientific context.
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snare&racket
My apologies Jeffro, I assure you I have explained the real meaning of 'theory' in science too many times myself. I quite wrongly, hopped into the unscientific meaning of the word I.e. Unproven.
Braincleaned: We know that the universe expanded at great pace from a singularity, i.e. A big bang, that is for sure. As I said we have even mapped the progress of the radiation outwards. However, as Jeffro states, the big bang theory, I.e. The vast collation of data and hypothesis regarding the topic of the big bang i.e. Its "theory" obviosuly still exists and is far from being fully understood, though good progress is taking place.
I get frustrated at people that wish to argue and debate for the sake of arguing.... 'Well that may not be true' or ' well we could be wrong about everything' or 'science is not perfect'. None of these statements will win you a nobel prize because we already know that and work within those parameters.
in order to know anything we have to assume three basic concepts, that
A. We and the universe exist and are real
B. We can learn about our universe via observation
C. Prediction is the best form of testing our understandings of our observations
These three assumptions are what has led to the scientific process. Guess what, it works....science works! The scientific method was invented around 150 years ago to make a more efficient and reliable way to examine and test our observations. Since then pur progress has been vastly quicker in pace. Perfect? NoPe... But if you have a better suggestion than the scientific method... Tell the world, if not,.. Then you are telling us something we already know!
Again, it is not elitism! To say so is akin to saying it is elitism for a pilot to refuse to let a passanger land the plane.... Even if they have dabbled on a PC flight simulator for a few years. Cheances are we are safer in the experts hands... Either way, it is in itself ignorant to call this scenraio elitist. It helps nobody to ask the whole world for its opinion on string theory. Let the scientists do the science!
Hobby reading physics is great, but these people are still galaxies away from the experts, they are giants in their fields! They are so advanced they struggle talking in concepts we understand. So of course it is unintuitive to us..... But lets be honest .....until you have THE exact same knowledge, evidence and comprehension skills as the people leading these sciences, how can you possibly dismiss them? You don't have to accept them, but be honest, say it is because you chose to ignore them in favour of a religious text. BUT don't pretend you have superior evidence or science!
that is all i am saying.
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Jeffro
snare&racket:
Again, it is not elitism!
It (the scientific method) is the exact opposite of elitism. Scientists will proudly state, "we don't yet know". Whereas elitist theists claim they do 'just know' things that 1) they can't possibly know and 2) stifle progress toward ever knowing.
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snare&racket
Yes jeffro.... For 25 years I told everyone that would let me speak at their door that we had the answers for everything ! I find religious people do have an answer for everything! I realise now that I was satisfied by JUST HAVING an answer, I never questioned too much whether that answer was true or not
For example, dismissing science on the basis that some humans once thought the earth was flat is not only lazy but intellectually dishonest, but it was an answer and a means to get back to the rehearsed speech or next paragraph in the knowledge book.... So we all used it.
This hit home watching a bible study on youtube (miketheatheist). A study (mike) was asking about blood. A Sister said that blood was a money making scheme and all a scam By insurance companies. The elder taking the study present said he used to be a fireman and that firetrucks never carry blood but carry saline, as if he was letting out some kind of hidden secret. He then agreed that is was all a scam.
They seemed so smug in their answers and the study (mike) sat there quite gobsmacked.
Saline is simply water and minerals matching the consitency of blood, it does nothing more than provide fluid to maintain pressure in the vascular system so the heart can function and not go into failure. Saline cant cary oxygen, so at best it buys you minutes, depending how much oxygen you are already loaded with. The minersls in saline are just to stop the water flooding out of the vessels and into the cells, they serve no purpose like actual blood. In order to not kill the patient, before you give blood a lab test is required to test your blood type. Blood must be stored at below freezing and has a shelf life of about 3 weeks. The only blood that can be given to everyone is type 'o' the universal donor type, but is in great demand. Having seen the blood stores in large hospitals, I know how limited they are, they keep blood in a machine very similar to a vending machine (size and design). i have never seen a full one, mostly they are around half full. There is not that much to go around. These are the reasons why they are not on firetrucks. But the reality is this doesnt matter to the JW, they just had to have AN answer, any answer..... When i saw this video I had a wash of realisation ride over me, I did that ALL THE TIME and I saw JW's do it ALL THE TIME, not only to studies, not only in talks to the congregation...but even to loved ones.
I am shocked even today, when I reach a point in a conversation with a religious person where I say 'we don't know that yet' and their face lights up with a huge smile, this by chance is where god apparantly stepped in.... Well until we learn more on that subject and they have to retreat one more step towards our yet unknown. The dishonesty is so obvious now to me now.
I don't think I have ever seen a christian here debate the ins and outs of gravity, despite our terrible understanding and theories of it. Nor do I ever hear them dismiss the atomic theory, something vastly debated and ever changing. They, as if by coincidence take issue with evolution, the science of how dna changes over time and the big bang.... An undeniable event that took place as the universe continues to expand from it and the resulting radiation of the event still visible and detectable. By chance these things make a mockery of their beliefs, the fact they dont believe them is merely coincidence? I have never once heard a legitimate, scientific spanner thrown into the works of any of these theories from a christian.
It is alsways simply AN answer that suffices their bias. "Well it may all be wrong" or "You weren't there" or "It is only a theory." or "It doesn't seem logical/probable/likely to me"
..... Meanwhile in eden...the man whose wife was made from his rib in the magic garden ia angry with his missus because a talking snake convinced them to eat a super fruit and now god must punish everyone (deityfacepalm) until he sends his son as a sacrifice to himself so that he can forgive the people for beaking the rule he made and to cover the eating of the apple by the man and woman he made, who were deceived by the snake and devil he made, in the magic garden he made..... god now has to sit down and quickly change the whole universe he made around this apple incident he made, animals have to now hunt and eat other, which means starting from scratch in how they look, live and metabolise, also humans now need a beta 2 update, adam needs some dented bread tin sperm for his balls, all dna needs some faults adding which ironically will induce evolution...shit best do that to the animals too...but wait they didnt sin...ah well, no time to figure it out, sorry kitties.......oh and the humans (and animals) ..now need to live horrendous lives as punishment so it is time to start designing some horrid diseases.....oh maybe some kind of growth that spreads around your body and kills you slowly and painfully while your family look on........oh nice, that will satisfy my anger at the fruit scrumping, those thieving b@stards! ......I wish I wasn't so lonely.... Hello Hans bix...
This B.S. they have NOOOOOOOO problem with...
Wow humans are hard work!
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Jeffro
snare&racket:
The man whos wife was made from his rib in the magic garden, until a talking snake convinced them to eat a special apple though..... That they have no problem with...
You're dismissing the historical account of dirt boy and rib girl?! Burn the heretic!
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Jeffro
snare&racket:
They, as if by coincidence tske issue with evolution, the science of how dna changes over time
This website illustrates in a simple way how natural selection works. 'Cars' are randomly generated, and successive generations of 'car' randomly inherit traits from the most 'successful' ancestors. Settings such as track type and mutation frequency can be adjusted, but it's also interesting to watch with just the defaults. As with any 'organism', 'success' is defined as suitability for a particular environment.
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snare&racket
"So monkeys turned into box cars?" .....no! .... :D Lol
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tec
Wow, lots on here since I went to work, and I'm off to bed momentarily.
I just wanted to say thank you, Braincleaned, for sharing your journey with me, as I shared my understanding and journey with you. I like your quote.
As per life coming forth from the energy that is in God... Here is one quote that might help support this (if you or anyone else was wondering, naming that energy as power... and there are many such verses, sometimes where the word is interchanged with might or strength (but if often means energy; like in some places where it is said that they had no more 'strength' to weep, we might say that person was exhausted, they had no energy left to weep, or dance, or shout, etc):
"Ah Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm."
Just something to ponder.
I don't think I can respond to anything else that has been asked of me, or stated to me, tonight. (eyes getting blurry, lol) In the next day or so though.
Peace,
tammy
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Jeffro
tec:
"Ah Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm."
There's nothing of value in that assertion. You may as well 'ponder' this quote from the great Qui-Gon Jinn:
"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."