Okay, but when I share that evidence, I am told that it is not evidence... or emprical or logical, etc.
So perhaps starting with a defintion of empircal would be best?
em·pir·i·cal
: based on testing or experience
1 : originating in or based on observation or experience <empirical data> 2 : relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory <an empirical basis for the theory> 3 : capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment <empirical laws> My evidence for God is Christ, first and foremost (though I never did not believe). That would be the Christ who is recognized by His sheep as the Truth, by the truth He speaks... and the Christ who DOES speak even now, TO many (including me) as the Spirit. (Able to speak to many as the Spirit, as opposed to when He was a flesh and blood man, limited as flesh and blood men are limited... so that now He is not so limited and can speak to anyone, anywhere. Though just as in his physical time here, some people hear and recognize his voice... and some do not). I could speak about my journey. (I do have a thread from a couple years back on evidence of God, though I have learned much from my Lord since then as well.) Of having always known and experienced God... so that I know I was not born an atheist (as some like to claim we all are). I did not always know what to think about Him though. But I heard truth in Christ and His teaching... and of course I love because Christ loved me first. But I followed because I loved Him, from his teachings (though that love has grown, become more real, since I have come to know HIM, rather than just about Him through his teachings)... and later I asked for ears to hear Him when I learned that He does and IS speaking because He truly is alive. And it is pretty hard to doubt someone once you have heard them speaking to you... though also easy to dismiss his voice or block Him out as something else (instinct, your own voice, a random thought, even as some other spirit), etc, if you do not know Him or do not want to hear or accept what He has said, for whatever reason, including that you might be too caught up in your 'own' know-it-all-ness. I have done this even knowing that He speaks... and I have to shake my head at myself, because I know better... but I am too busy doing my own thing, or relying upon myself. Example: I was searching for a passage I needed for something (that I will not go into here), and I wondered what book it was in. The 'he who is without sin cast the first stone' passage. My Lord said to me, "John". But I just rode over His voice... because I was too busy listening to my own reasoning. I knew that this passage is one that was not in the earliest manuscripts, so perhaps added somewhere down the line... and I always think of John as the most reliable. So I shook my head, and decided... Matthew (or Mark), because I remembered that one is supposed to be based roughly off the other. So perhaps it was in the larger version... Matthew. I searched Matthew, found nothing. I heard again, the quiet voice that is my Lord, "John". I knew He spoke and also paid no attention at the same time, figuring it must be Mark and I got them mixed up. So I search Mark. Nope. Well, perhaps it is in Luke... because Luke investigated matters and interviewed people so it might be something that he wrote in that no one else had in. So I start to look it up (and by now, having heard John twice and ignoring that, I am not really expecting to find anything in Luke, and yet I decide to go there anyway) I then hear, "I have told you John. But if you must find it the hard way, then that is what you will do." No anger in that at all, to be clear. Just a sort of 'sigh... go on then'... (sort of like how you would give to your own child who is ignoring the truth you have given to help them, to do it their way instead) And of course the passage is in John. The one place I was SURE by my own reasoning that it would NOT be. Exactly opposite of what I thought. Except in rare instances (Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus), Christ does not intrude or force others to hear Him, as He also did not do this when He lived. He preached, He spoke, He told the Truth, He taught, He guided... as a man; and does the same as the Spirit. His voice is quiet. You have to listen. You have to quiet yourself - and all those voice of men and religion around you - and pay attention. He also speaks only truth, and man is not any better at accepting truth he does not want to hear now, than he was two thousand years ago. There are other arguments to be made for God... though these arguments would be for the spiritual, of some sort, and not a specific God. Such as that every civilization... isolated or not... from the very beginning and onward... has sought the spiritual. Every single one of them. Heard that calling. Men seek the spiritual... because the spiritual exists... I would go farther than that, because every man IS spirit ("underneath" these vessels), so that it is part of us to seek what we (the spirit, the man on the inside) recognizes and knows. I think that is quite compelling as evidence in an argument for God. I have to get ready for work soon, so I won't be able to talk again until late tonight or tomorrow. Peace to you, tammy
