by Hortensia 219 Replies latest social current
LV101 thank you for your kind words.
Band - how do you reconcile your wild accusations in this thread with your profession that requires you to think and speak carefully?
Ruby - Your accusation that I twist other peoples words is an unjustified slur. I may express my thoughts strongly but I am very careful to try to accurately understand my opponent's position accurately.
Some believers are very careless with their words.
Well, large adulatory image macros aside, I don't believe that just because people can say anything they want, that they should do so. My problem is with the tone, not the content, of atheist posts, as well as the threadjacking that DJS and I were referring to. In other words, it boils down to respect.
But some people do not apparently see this primarily as a support forum for Witnesses, which comes as a surprise to me. We've had this discussion before, and it seems that maybe 50% of the users see the forum as a safe haven and halfway house for mentally or physically exiting Witnesses, and the other 50% see it as a personal soapbox and aren't concerned with who they offend.
It was also made clear in that thread (which I won't be linking to) that our administrator Simon feels the forum can fulfill both purposes and is not especially interested in moderating the tone of posts when they are not completely over the top, which leads to the uncomfortable mixing of users who have very different views of how they are supposed to behave here.
I do agree with the seeming point in the image macro that there is little to be accomplished by complaining, as there is not really a rule against threadjacking (I don't think rule #10 covers it when we are talking about replying to a "Bible topic" by saying "God doesn't exist lol") or speaking disrespectfully (since the interpretation by moderators of what falls under rule #1 seems to have a high threshold).
So in a nutshell this means that, when a tone shift occurs in the forum, which unquestionably has happened (compared to several years ago, at least), that some users are going to feel more comfortable here and some will feel less comfortable. Although I don't personally approve, it's not my forum and I don't think anything's going to change.
Please offer an example or two of thread hijacking.
I don't deny it happens but I think these general accusations are unhelpful.
Believers all too often want to lure exiting JWs to other versions of religious superstitions.
The greatest favour you can do somebody in that position is to tell them to forget all about the big questions for at least a few years and concentrate on life, family, career, education and fun. That is always my advice.
Too many believers see them as easy targets for conversion. That needs to be opposed uncompromisingly.
My problem is with the tone, not the content, of atheist posts, as well as the threadjacking that DJS and I were referring to. In other words, it boils down to respect.
Unless insults are being thrown, the tone comes from the reader. I notice, though, that you only have as problem with atheists posts, not any other kind.
It still seems like the issue is when Christianity is treated as not-special.
I did not say anything for months precisely b/c it was Cofty. Why anyone would want to be overbearing is beyond me. I know intellects. Cofty is not using his intellect on these posts. I am not stupid and yet I believe. People in New York consider me well read. Yet I believe. My belief was not to be an issue. Cofty made it important. He needs to borrow "How to Win Friends and Influence People." When have I ever posted fundamentalist material? I fight against it.
I am not impressed with any atheist here attacking believers. There is no right or wrong concerning belief. Is Cofty stupid? No. A great intellect? No.Why can't we just be people who shared an experience with a small dinky American religion. I am not alone in my remarks.
I am not stupid and yet I believe. People in New York consider me well read. Yet I believe.
Belief is not about intellect. I have said this many times.
"people in New York" WOW!
There is no right or wrong concerning belief.
Yes there is.
Is Cofty stupid? No
You called me an idiot just a few hours ago.
He needs to borrow "How to Win Friends and Influence People."
I have loads of friends in real life thanks.
Please offer an example or two of thread hijacking.
I don't deny it happens but I think these general accusations are unhelpful.
It doesn't seem like I need to provide examples if you don't deny it happens! But I will if you really want me to (I have to head out for an errand, so I will do it when I get back in).
Believers all too often want to lure exiting JWs to other versions of religious superstitions.
I disagree with this. Here's what I do see:
JW: I'm doubting a lot of the teachings.
ex-JW: I've been so much happier since I got closer to Jesus and learned what the Bible really says.
Here's what I don't see:
JW: I'm doubting a lot of the teachings.
ex-JW: I'm much happier as a ____, you should come to one of our churches some time.
The former example is just someone sharing that they're happier now that they've changed their beliefs. I don't see anything close to "luring" people to other religions. Maybe it happens in PMs, but I wouldn't know about that.
The greatest favour you can do somebody in that position is to tell them to forget all about the big questions for at least a few years and concentrate on life, family, career, education and fun. That is always my advice.
Well, I totally agree with that. And if that's what you're doing, then great. I'm talking about the posts that are truly mocking any belief in God. These posts are counter-productive, a bit like saying, "So you want to get over your fear of water? Come jump in the deep end of this pool. In fact, you can just stand here and I'll push you."
Unless insults are being thrown, the tone comes from the reader. I notice, though, that you only have as problem with atheists posts, not any other kind.
Yes, because I'm not seeing any real vitriol coming from the religious to the irreligious (I'm speaking of general trends here, not an occasional insult towards an atheist poster). Whereas, since I joined, I've been seeing the openly religious posters treated quite rudely and seen them generally responding in a very mild, Christian manner to all kinds of abuse. It's truly strange to me if you guys are not seeing this very lopsided situation. I don't feel that I should have to pull up example threads because this has happened so often that the trend should be clear, but I will do so anyway (when I get back in).
ex-JW: I've been so much happier since I got closer to Jesus and learned what the Bible really says.
So are you are ok with a christian encouraging an ex-JW to adopt a new set of myths based on the false foundation of a book that claims to be something it is not?
If somebody wants to keep some sort of faith good luck to them but that needs to be based on reality...
We often witness people of faith on this forum who think it is a virtue to hold on to beliefs that science has exposed as impossible.
These are not opinions of equal validity as religious beliefs, these are incontrovertible facts that will still be true in a thousand years. If everybody on earth forgot everything they knew and the process of human learning had to start again from zero we would eventually arrive at these same facts. They are objetively true and they must trump religious dogma if theists wish to be taken seriously.
We should NEVER apolgise for sharing these facts with people who have been kept from reality all the years they were a JW.
How bloody partronising of you to think it's a kindness not to trouble intelligent adults with important information.
I'm not seeing any real vitriol coming from the religious to the irreligious
How very myopic of you.
Cofty - you make me laugh!
Band - why on earth would anyone care that you believe, what you believe or what anyone in NY thinks/feels/considers. They don't.
It's a discussion board and everyone has their opinion and is free to comment as long as they stay within the parameters of the board's guidelines.
So athiests are the only ones attacking others - being rude, judgmental, opinionated like your comments on the legal/beagle thread. Kinda, thusly, "do as I say not as I do." Got it!
What wild accusations?. I am complaining about your conduct of late. If Adamah were still here, I would also mention his name. This is not normal behavior. I fail to see your interest in smashing all believers. Temper tantrum time. No one is allowed to think unless Cofty approves it. You prove that atheists can have screws loose.
It is maniacal. Yes, I am a lawyer. No, I will not be a quiet fool.
