by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
How far exactly are you going to let alphaman go?
Ah, the old standby - accusation of unfairness and failure to stop someone else saying things that you don't like.
Of course you don't see or acknowledge posts that do go to far and are removed as a result.
What specifically is your complaint? Is it the image that has appeared on every major TV news programme umpteen times?
Just like the liberal defense lawyer defending some guilty monster.....the Muslim sympathizers don't want the jury to see the crimes of Islam.
AlphaMan,
You have helped me a lot with my exit, but I am afraid I disagree with you on this. You are not showing us the crimes of Islam, IMO you are showing us the crimes of radical and extremist Muslims. These Muslims take the Koran literally, many Muslims don't behave this way, they practice peace. I can't understand why someone of your intellect is grouping a whole religion with the crimes of just a few, you have given me such sound advice in the past. I am truly puzzled by your comments and posts, truly.
Kate xx
I am truly puzzled by your comments and posts, truly.
.
First off....I'm glad if I've been able to help you in some way in your exit from the JW cult.
Second.....I don't want anyone here to take anything I say personal to the point where they don't enjoy coming here to JWN to talk about, support & find support in our various stages of leaving the Watchtower.
Lastly.....no where have I lumped all Muslims into the same group. However, they practice Islam which no amount of "niceness" can remove the hate ideology in their holy book. After all that has happened I cannot and will not accept the treason & sedition that the Islam religion brings to America. I will not disrespect the innocent victims of Islam in America and around the world.
@KateWild - your last post shows your bias on this matter. AlphaMan's post was shocking - perhaps he shouldn't have posted it but OTOH perhaps this kind of post is neccessary to wake people like you up.
As a matter of interest, would you take a similar stance with regard to JW-ism: most JWs are decent, balanced, moderate people, only JW extremists advocate dying instead of blood transfusions, etc, usw?
You are not showing us the crimes of Islam, IMO you are showing us the crimes of radical and extremist Muslims. These Muslims take the Koran literally, many Muslims don't behave this way, they practice peace. I can't understand why someone of your intellect is grouping a whole religion with the crimes of just a few, you have given me such sound advice in the past. I am truly puzzled by your comments and posts, truly.
What some of us are saying is that part of the problem is how the day-to-day religion contains the foundation for people to act out this hatred.
We're not saying that all muslims perform these acts or are guilty of directly supporting them but the religion does contain those teachings and it would be better if it did not - both for the targets and victims of these attrocities and also for the families of the youths who are recruited based on the similarity and progression of the message they have been indoctrinated with.
People seem to have accepted that Christianity and Judaism were 'bad' but since reformed / evolved and are now 'less bad' yet can't accept any labelling of a religion now doing what christianity once did as possibly being bad in the same way.
It isn't a difficult case to make that islam currently still is bad because it hasn't made those changes. We need to help those who are pushing for genuine change by not excusing the religion by leaping to defend the hate speech it contains whenever anyone criticises it.
All the complaints simply center around treating all muslims the same which is not what we're doing - we're saying they should be different and clearly different to the extremists and they should be making sure that there is no chance for people to mistake them for the same.
While the belief system contains fundamental hate messages though that is going to happen. Who's fault is that - the people who repeat and teach that message or the people who point it out?
Until islam rids itself of it's extreme beliefs it will always negatively associate it's adherants with the extremists who act out those beliefs.
| As a matter of interest, would you take a similar stance with regard to JW-ism: most JWs are decent, balanced, moderate people, only JW extremists advocate dying instead of blood transfusions, etc, usw? |
We already went over this. That's an association error on your part.
Sect is to religion as:
Jehovah's Witness is to Christian
_____________ is to Muslim
You can't associate a huge religion with a WIDE number of sects to a single sect with set rules (since the former has a much higher variance of beliefs and rules, to thousands of powers, as compared to a singular sect).
edit:
Simon
People seem to have accepted that Christianity and Judaism were 'bad' but since reformed / evolved and are now 'less bad' yet can't accept any labelling of a religion now doing what christianity once did as possibly being bad in the same way. |
Who did this? Provide direct quotes.
on the flip side, I can provide several quotes of people equating ALL Muslims to the more or most extreme sections, confusing sects with the religion as the whole, and committing ridiculous ad-hominems by labeling anyone that doesn't agree with them or points out the flaws in their logic "liberals."
No, Billyblobber, I'm afraid you've got this wrong.
Most JWs (at least in my congregation) are decent, well-meaning people. JW extremists advocate dying over blood transfusions and are quick to back up their stance with scripture. These JW extremists are DOs and the GB.
Similarly, most muslims, like their JW counterparts, are decent, well-meaning people. Muslim extremists (the Islamic equivalent to GB) advocate waging war on infidels and are quick to back up their stance with scripture.
At some point you're going to have accept this reality.
Actually, no I don't have it wrong because it's base logic that follows simple association rules. I can't point it out any more clear than I did the above post, I don't think.
If you can't understand the logical association of "apple is to fruit like Mustang is to car," you can't even really have a discussion on this because your logical association does not work, and you can't follow what other people who understand this are saying. That's why you keep arguing past people and misunderstanding posts.
edit: You think that Muslims are like Jehovah's Witnesses in their adherence to beliefs. They are not, they are like Christians when it comes to their beliefs. Do Jehovah's Witnesses share the same interpretation of the Bible as Southern Baptists?
@Billyblobber - theoretical logical associations are fine as long as they work out in reality, on the ground!
The fact that you've separated JWs and Christian as moderate and extremists positions of the same religion suggests you are unable to distinguish between moderate JWs (most of the rank-and-file) and extremist JWs (most DOs, bethelites, GB). I hope this is not the case.
Please start again and reconsider this issue. Thank you.
