Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease

by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult

  • Simon
    Simon

    Who did this? Provide direct quotes.

    I'm not wasting my time with non-arguments like this - it's all there for you to read, and no one seems to be arguing against it, in fact recognition of Christianities evil past seemed to be the hope that some were pinning their argument to as though it somehow excused islams current issues. If you are saying this is incorrect then let's hear your arguments why but don't waste our time otherwise.

    You think that Muslims are like Jehovah's Witnesses in their adherence to beliefs. They are not, they are like Christians when it comes to their beliefs. Do Jehovah's Witnesses share the same interpretation of the Bible as Southern Baptists?

    When it comes to the basic beliefs, yes. Chist is god's son, don't kill people, god is going to return and go apeshit etc... Your comparison is really with Sunni vs Shia muslims.

    The JW - muslim comparison is very apt though. While most JWs would never want to do anything extreme and are decent people they will repeat parts of their faith that are less than nice and go along with bad choices and see nothing wrong with it - from allowing children to die from lack of medical treatment to shunning family members. By carrying blood cards and taking part in shunning they support the practices. For the bad things to happen it needs the tacit support of the majority even though they may not be doing the bad things themselves and may even decry them.

    you claim that no one on this thread has demonstrated that moderate Muslims do not support extreme passages in the Quran. I posted an extract from the Islamic Bulletin explaining why Jihad is not what it is claimed to be.

    Saying that jihad is not what it is claimed to be is not at all the same as demonstrating that moderate muslims do not support extreme passages in the Quran. The fundamental issue that you have not and cannot get around is the simple fact:

    • Muslims believe the Quran is the holy word of god
    • The Quran contains hateful commandments
    • Muslims cannot say that the Quran is wrong

    If any muslim does say that the quran is wrong or not the holy word of god then they live in fear of being killed because of it.

    Is the bulletin the same one the RCMP withdrew support from? Have you read it? It reads like a WTS publication and is all about making sure that islam has a good name. That is it's prime concern, not with solving the issue. It's simply propaganda teaching adherants how to lie or get out of answering difficult questions.

    I posted an article talking about the diversity of interpretations of the Quran and the variety of understandings of what it is to be a Muslim. Water off a duck's back. Someone else posted photos of muslims campaigning against IS and violence. No credit.

    It's easy to denounce the acts of extremists. It's harder to admit that they are acting out the very beliefs that you hold. If it's simply an interpretation thing then where are the voices saying "that is not in the Quran"? Why isn't that the message being shouted out?

    Nowhere do we hear people saying "that is not in the quran, that is not what the word of god says" ... well, other than people who are labelled as apostates and ex-mulsims ... which reinforces that current muslims must belief it.

    I can tell you as a fact that respect for the sanctity of human life, any human life, is a fundamental principle of Islam but you are unlikely to accept that either. You have decided that Islam is 'bad' and nothing will deflect you from that.

    Because it's blatently untrue. The religion contains commands and excuses for abuse and people excuse those with wishy-washy "we value life" and "it's a religion of peace" statements but those are simply cheap words to fool the naive and those who imagine they are accomplishing something by being tollerant of evil.

    It's just like JWs saying they are loving and caring but then rip families apart and cause great suffering - they know to say one thing to onlookers while behaving at odds to their claims.

    Some people are taken in, others are not.

  • Simon
    Simon

    “…take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.”

    Sounds great ... until you realise that the justice and law commands all sorts of vile things from beating women to raping slaves and killing non-believers.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    @Frazzled - calm down.

    You're right, nothing you've said in this entire thread could be taken as support for radical Islam.

    'Who the f*ck do you think you are!' - I'm just an ordinary guy who's capable of independent thought and asking awkward questions, that's all.

    I'm sorry if you feel insulted but I feel my question was relevent and on-topic. If you like, I'll ask Simon, AlphaMan, Billyblobber, cofty, Laika the exact same question.

  • AlphaMan
    AlphaMan

    It's just like JWs saying they are loving and caring but then rip families apart and cause great suffering - they know to say one thing to onlookers while behaving at odds to their claims. Some people are taken in, others are not.

    Islam also has a "theocratic warfare" belief, where they can lie to non-Muslim infidels to gain trust & acceptance.

    Question:

    Are Muslims permitted to lie?

    Summary Answer:

    Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

    There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I wanted you to explicitly state whether you were on the West's side or radical Islam's side, you just have to write one sentence - you still haven't done this .

    If you like, I'll ask Simon, AlphaMan, Billyblobber, cofty, Laika the exact same question.

    At face value this should really be a no-brainer to answer.

    It's scary that some people struggle to make a choice and would side with radical islam because it is closer to islam than the west.

    Isn't that the problem? If you are closer to extremists there is something wrong with you.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    @Simon - I feel it is a problem.

    I don't think Frazzled, Billyblobber et al are close to radical Islam.

    I feel that these kind of people are slightly or moderately oikophobic, in that they have no problems criticising the West (in many instances I'd agree with them) but when they run into an enemy who's not white, male and Christian/Western they're not sure what position to take.

    Do they yell 'bigot' at nasty people like me?

    Do they try to understand extremism?

    Do they condemn extremists?

    Do they side with the West? Would that then make them bigots?

    It is indeed fascinating that the simple question 'do you side with the West or with radical Islam?' can provoke evasiveness and anger.

  • Gustv Cintrn
    Gustv Cintrn

    Hi y'all,

    Open your mind and check this out the following link:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI2OBylwl0k&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ

    GC

  • AlphaMan
    AlphaMan

    I feel that these kind of people are slightly or moderately oikophobic, in that they have no problems criticising the West (in many instances I'd agree with them) but when they run into an enemy who's not white, male and Christian/Western they're not sure what position to take.

    More like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Do they yell 'bigot' at nasty people like me?

    Amazing.....you can hate Nazism and the KKK, but if you speak out against Islam you are a bigot.

  • Simon
    Simon

    It seems that some are saying "oh no, those evil pieces aren't really applicable but you need to understand these very complicated rules and nuances to appreciate this and understand why".

    What I and others are saying is that this is not good enough and dangerous because it is so eaily subverted as well as easily misunderstood.

    It's like having a disclaimer in small print at the bottom. Easy to miss and especially quick to be overlooked by the less educated and sophisticated or the malevolent who want to use the texts to promote their own agenda.

    Is the fine-print enough to excuse people of responsibility? Well, technically "yes" ... but morally "no". People are obviously not doing a good enough job educating and explaning the nuances of how to interpret things 'correctly' (and you could debate what is correct) so surely the sensible thing is to make it clear what is and isn't considered current and applicable.

    This seems to be what christianity has successfully managed to do with the bible and the OT in particular.

    Why is it so onerous to ask people not to promote messages that contain dangerous beliefs if they do not hold those beliefs? Why is that impinging on anyone's religion?

    Oh, and the youtube clip above is the typical retort of "well the bible has bad things in it too" and "christians believe that jesus is going to come back and kill anyone so how is that different".

    Well as we've been over - the OT bible passages are clearly not current belief and usually glossed over by christians, certainly not promoted and the belief that a deity is going to destroy people is very very different to belief that a deity wants you to destroy people although they seem equivalent at face value if you put no thought into it.

    Again though, why is the only defense of islam usually to point to Christianity and shout "same, same !!" as though even if it was that would excuse the criticism?!?!

  • Gustv Cintrn
    Gustv Cintrn

    Islam, like Christianity, is just a major religion/belief system. Just like Christianity, there are many followers that pursue its extreme; it has many ways to practice it!

    Imagine that if Christianity was practiced JW-style, none of these wars and their ramifications would ever have occured; instead, we have Christianity praticed George W Bush-style, and look where's gotten us. Same in the case with Islam; there are a minority radicals that make a lot of noise, but there are so many more that are just good people with a belief system different from ours.

    In the indoctrinated Muslim radical mind, we're the evil terrorists "Christians" because of what we've wrongly done and continue to do to them; and yet, there are many Christians that would rather go to jail instead of causing even a smidgen of the unbelievable/irreparable damage we're causing in Muslim countries.

    In reality, based on our actions towards them: The 100s of thousands of dead, the occupation and devastation we've caused on their own lands/territories, the support we provide for those nations that just as well destroy them, mind you, in their own freaking land, we as denominated "Christian Nation" are much worse than they could ever be to us! And all of this in the name of 'greed'!

    Alright, one more. Keep an open mind:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnmUVULEbk&index=1&list=PLTpcK80irdQhZM1aPgIl6VSbdLzrC013Z

    Enough already.

    GC

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit