As for me being a namby-pamby liberal (once again your black and white thinking has put me in the wrong box) my solution for Islamic Fundamentalism in the Arab World in the near term is to leave the strong men authoritarian leaders in place for they despise the Extremists as much as we do. Saddam was a bad man but he maintained order in a country that is virtually ungovernable. Similarly Mubarak in Egyp and Assad in Syria. One of the problems with the invasion of Iraq was that the ideologues wanted to show this was the beginning of democracy taking over in the Arab World notwithstanding the complete lack of democratic institutions. So the West encourougaed the Arab Spring movements but anyone could see that the beneficiary of this would be fundamentalism as the best organised political movement in those countries. The rhetoric in the West around the Syrian rebels has changed a lot since ISIS started being successful. Apart from keeping them under control - by throwing them in prison - they keep the fundamentalists focussed on their governments as the enemy rather than the West.
Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease
by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult
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barry
Frazzled UBM,
I would like your opinion on what I am going to say here
You yourself admit to the various opinions in Islam my opinion and I don't know how right I am in what Im going to say. I would estimate the Fanatics being 20 % these would be the types that would join ISIS . The moderates being 75% These people would want sharia law including all the nasty aspects of it and they would probably be happy to see Islam conquer the world even by force but be passive in there support. they probably not take up arms against us . Then we have the liberals in Islam they would be believers but not be interested in sharia they may believe Islam should move on from its violent past.
I would be interested in your opinion because I think many here may have a lopsided view on the makeup of Islamic thought.
Because Islam has not had the enlightenment that permiated Europe and America people are rightly concerned with the fanatics that get all the press and also with the moderates most people don't really know how moderate they are either. Barry
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Frazzled UBM
Barry - I would take issue with this statement: "The moderates...would want sharia law including all the nasty aspects of it." The overwhelming majoirty of educated urban muslims are deeply resistant to sharia law. It is the Raqdicals who want sharia law. There are various aspect so inheritance and marriage law in the Arab world - that is laws that deal with personal matters - which are based on Sharia. Apart from Saudi Arabia and a couple of other gulf states - the criminal and commercial codes of Arab countries are based on European criminal and commercial codes. It is also very hard to put percentages on this but I would agree that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are moderates, though even with the moderate camp there is a wide spectrum of opinions. What unites the moderates is the view that Islam is personal not political and that the religion is not promoted through the use of violence.
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designs
Frazzled, if you dissected chapter and verse from the Quran would you find support for or against Sharia Law. And what pressure does that put on Muslims.
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Frazzled UBM
designs - you have it the wrong way around - Sharia is derived from the Quran, hadith and other sources so is not referenced in the Quran. Sharia was the law of the Islamic Caliphate. Modern Muslims recognise that much of the Sharia Law is no longer applicable to modern life and that to impose it as national law would be oppressive.
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LoveUniHateExams
Frazzled - was your post (no. 1034) directed at me?
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Frazzled UBM
yes
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LoveUniHateExams
@Frazzled - I agree with you that thing's are not black and white. There are shades of grey.
However, the West and radical Islam are indeed at war; you may not like this fact and neither do I - I'd rather everyone got on peacefully and talked their problems through. Neither Barack Obama nor George W. Bush are the cause of this war, this clash of civilisations. It started when 19 maniacs hijacked 4 US passenger planes. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the years lading up to 9/11, there was a bomb placed underneath the twin towers (1993, I think) and Osama Bin Ladin declared war on the US later on in the 90s.
I still feel that my question to you was relevent and on-topic. When I answered it and explicitly sided with the West it felt strange, because I don't usually like to take sides in wars. However, you're right in that I continued to throw the question at you to the point of bullying, and for this I apologise.
In my post no. 115 I admitted that your comments in no way supported radical Islam.
If the word 'Islamophobia' is legit then so is 'oikophobia'.
I fully agree with you that strong men such as Saddam, Gaddafi, etc. kept fanatics under control and were, therefore, the lesser of the two evils.
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jgnat
So....to defend the majority of peacful muslims and the right for them to practice their religion in peace, I am automatically an oikophobe? This is not an either/or. There are plenty of muslims in the West, too.
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Frazzled UBM
LUHE - you apology is accepted - let's leave it there. Fraz