Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease

by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult

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  Finkelstein

  Being that Islamic beliefs supports the vanquishing of non-believers in the most violent of possible ways and offers rewarding praise

  and martyrdom to those who take that action, as per written in the Quran of some 1500 years ago, seeing this actually happening

  today has bought appalling condemnation from all around the world from a modern human sociological perspective.

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  Unfortunately this backward and obscure behavior has been nourished and fed by the Jewish Islamic struggle in the middle East for centuries now.

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  The US involving support of the State of Israel and its support of other countries such as Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan has put the US as somewhat

  focusing point of that struggle, together with pretty much every other non Islamic countries.

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  It was once theorized after the expulsion of Saddam Hussian in Iraq and the dismantling of the Iraqi military forces, that

  extreme Islamic separatist groups could possibly run over ashoud over Iraq in an attempt take control over parts of the county at will.

  In toward what has been recently witnessed in Iraq, that is exactly what happened.

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  Since that power and control has been acquired from guns and violent threats, there is no other way to stop or control that kind of

  aggression but by guns and violence, open and peaceful dialog hasn't a chance to resolve this kind civil willingly unrest.

  Religious fervor, human ignorance, combined with poverty from a ineffective economic structure, has created a religious war of sorts in the

  middle east, exactly like what the Islamic clerics 1500 years ago would have liked to have seen from their following adherents.

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• 

  Simon

  It seems some are more outraged at any expression critical of religious commandments to kill than they are of people actually following through on those commandments.

  I think there has been a deliberate attempt on this topic to mischaracterize what I and others have said to cause confusion and derail the discussion with other irrelevant issues.

  The whole point is that regular people who say they are muslims and extremist muslims are *not* the same at all and they shouldn't be using the same label but the labelling does and will inevitably happen because they don't make a clear enough distinction between their beliefs.

  While people are rightly condemning the actions of the extremists the fact is that those actions are compatible with the commands in the holy book that all using that label profess to worship and follow and it's those that people should condemn and promote as being 'wrong' or no longer applicable. The actions are the symptom, the commands are the cause. It seems like the world wants to ignore the fact that the religion contains these commands and pretend they don't exist but the reality is that they are there in black and white.

  But some will criticise anything else and anyone who points out that simple fact.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I must admit, I have not read the Kuran or Koran or whatever it is called. I'm not impressed with the religion and I am not planning to ever join it. I agree, Simon, that if this book insists and insights people to murder, then the book is where the violence and oppression has its roots.
• 

  AlphaMan

  The whole point is that regular people who say they are muslims and extremist muslims are *not* the same at all and they shouldn't be using the same label but the labelling does and will inevitably happen because they don't make a clear enough distinction between their beliefs.

  The best thing I can liken this to is our own familiarization with the Jehovah Witness religion. There is a leadership Governing Body in Brooklyn, USA, and religious members in different countries around the world. We know there are extremist JW's and moderate JW's. JW's do consider themselves "no part of the world" and do teach that all worldly governments & people will be destroyed by Jehovah at Armaggedon.

  People only put up with JW's because of freedom of religion, and mainly just consider them a kooky cult. What if JW's actually had a holy book that told them that they must fight for Jehovah and kill all worldly people. What if extremist JW's were actually doing this? Beheading non-JW believers, blowing themselves up to kill worldly people, even carrying out a 9/11 attack somewhere in the world, and forming an army of JW's and terrorizing worldly people like ISIS?

  Do you think we would be on here defending the JW religion because there were some "nice moderate" JW's? Of course not. There are only "nice moderate" JW's because they don't take the beliefs to the extreme of the extremist JW's and Governing Body leadership. Extremists JW's don't even consider them JW's if they are not following all tenets & beliefs of the faith. Do away with the extremists element and leadership of the religion, and most "nice moderate" JW's probably free themselves from bondage to the religious beliefs.

  The same with Islam. Nice moderate Muslims are not even considered true Muslim. These people need to do more standing up, do more speaking out, and do more separting themselves from radical Islam if they are no threat to Western society.
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  No one is saying that all people currently claiming to be Muslims should be locked up, deported, killed etc...

  Exactly. No one has said anything like this about all Muslims in the U.S.

  You all realize that we can all scroll back and actually SEE where people posted about making Islam illegal in the USA? We can all scroll back and SEE all the people saying that ISLAM is a disease, not 'just radical Islam.'

  It is all there in print. The top of every page of this thead says 'Islam is a disease' not 'radical islam is a disease'. Read the OP. It is about ALL of ISLAM. And that is what is objectionable.

  "But how can this be achieved without shining a spotlight on the 'muslim community'?"

  How can we stop abortion clinic bombings without shining a spotlight on the 'Christian community'?

  Shine the spotlight on the RADICAL Christian community who are actually calling for killing abortion doctors based on their twisted interpretation of the Bible. There is no point in trying to stop abortion clinic bombings by shining a spotlight on ALL Christianity since 99.9999% of Christians DO NOT believe in bombing abortion clinics and DO NOT believe the Bible calls for such action and DO believe the Bible condemns such action.

  "@lisaBObeesa - I agree with your last point but it was hopelessly off-topic and therefore a fantastic example of whataboutery. I am genuinely interested to hear a proposal that eliminates islamic extremism without shining a spotlight on the 'muslim community'."

  Sorry I wasn't clear...

  Shine the spotlight on the RADICAL Muslim community who are actually calling for killing Americans based on their twisted interpretation of the Koran. There is no point in trying to stop the killing of Americans by shining a spotlight on ALL Islam since 99.9999% of Muslims DO NOT believe in killing Americans and DO NOT believe the Koran calls for such action and DO believe the Koran condemns such action.
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  lisaBObeesa

  The best thing I can liken this to is our own familiarization with the Jehovah Witness religion. There is a leadership Governing Body in Brooklyn, USA, and religious members in different countries around the world. We know there are extremist JW's and moderate JW's. JW's do consider themselves "no part of the world" and do teach that all worldly governments & people will be destroyed by Jehovah at Armaggedon.

  Jehovah's Witnesses fall under the Christian umbrella. They are a tiny little part of Christians....groups that have the Bible as their holy book.

  JWs are fundamentalist Christistians, much like ISIS is radical Muslims.

  All Christians can't be judged by the beliefs of JWs, and all Muslims can't be judged by the beliefs and practices of radical Islamic terrorist.

  Can't condem Christianity for not allowing blood transfusions.

  most of Christianity has no such rule! Only a tiny fraction of Christainity twists the bible in such a way.

  Likewise, you can't condem Islam for what radical terroists do. Most all of Islamic peoples do NOT believe as the terrorist do.
• 

  Phizzy

  It is a huge mistake to excuse the Communities that spawn extremists.

  Be they Christian, Muslim , Hindu, Bhuddist, whatever, it an intellectual Cop-Out to say, they are "not all like that".

  That, to quote Monty Python, is stating "the bleedin' obvious".

  But such woolley-minded, bleeding-heart liberal thinking covers over the reality that Islam is the womb for their extremists to flourish and grow, until they are thrust into the world ready to wreak havoc and bloodshed.

  The same is true of the Christian religion, it is the womb for their extremists.

  The key to bringing this to an end eventually is proper investment in REAL Education, then these silly out of date religious ideas would die the death they deserve.

  As the great Christopher Hitchins said "Religion Poisons Everything".
• 

  AlphaMan

  It is all there in print. The top of every page of this thead says 'Islam is a disease' not 'radical islam is a disease'. Read the OP. It is about ALL of ISLAM. And that is what is objectionable.

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  Islam is a disease. Why do you ignore the hatred in the Koran, the killings done by Muslims, and the outright ideology against western society? Moderate Muslims are only nice people who don't even follow or believe the true teachings of Islam. Until they make it clear that they are different, and have a holy Koran book that doesn't teach those things against Western infidels & Jews, then you can talk about a separation between the two.
• 

  Simon

  JWs are fundamentalist Christistians, much like ISIS is radical Muslims.

  All Christians can't be judged by the beliefs of JWs, and all Muslims can't be judged by the beliefs and practices of radical Islamic terrorist.

  Correct - but that's a perfectly good example of how some of the most extreme that Christianity produces doesn't hold a candle to what Islam produces.

  It's not even in the same ballpark and yet some just want to dismiss criticism of islam with "well, christianity is no different".

  There are extremes with both but I don't think anyone would claim that the distribution of members among either is the same or that the extremes of both reach the same points.
• 

  Finkelstein

  The question remains since devout Islamic adherents are spreading around the world in great numbers, such as in North American and Europe ,

  how many of these kinds of individual extremists are going to come out from those localized groups ?

  Yesterday it was announced in the media that France estimated that 1000 people have left their country to go and fight for ISIL in Syria and Iraq.

  More have come from England and the US.

  All of these people are willing to take up arms for the cause of ISIL and are also seemingly willing to die for ISIL and Allah as it were.

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  This is what Simon is saying when he says Islam is a disease against social order and civility by virtue of the faith itself.

  Unlike in modern countries where Islamic following has taken on something more of a secular structure and they have adopted to a less ridged

  formation of the faith. In third world countries which have been predominately Muslim, extreme Orthodox adherence is more appealing

  because from there there is a broader base of absolute power and control . ..... all in the pretentious posturing of giving praise to Allah .

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