Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed (page 13)

Landy

I agree 100% however when Mr. Mohammed goes home and beats his son for displaying homosexual tendencies or forces his daughter into an arranged marriage to stop her dating Western men then he is perpetuating a set of values that the rest of the nation around him consigned to history decades ago.

What's has that got to do with being complicit in supporting terrorism? Yes, islam needs to drag itself kicking and screaming out of the 17th century but that doesn't mean that all muslims support the bombings such as we have seen recently.

I completely get that the extremists are twisting things to the grotesque but the question is how much there is in the base content to be twisted. If the so called moderate Muslim majority in this country don't find a way of getting a handle on it and there are more atrocities like Monday night then I fear that we will see people taking a far more militant attitude to Islam and Muslims....

Yes, it needs to be tackled by muslims, I've said that previously. It also needs to be tackled through intelligence led policing and a strong judicial system.

And people taking a more militant attitude to Isam is exactly what the terrorists want. They want to divide and cause hatred.

.....and frankly there is far too much right wing, nationalistic extremism here already and it really does not need feeding.

You mean like on here? I go on a fair few forums, including some quite robust motorcycle forums, and this place is by far the most right wing, intolerant place I've seen.

Diogenesister

Did anyone see the team of doctors/surgeons who worked through the last few days desperately trying to save people.

Almost all with Muslim names.

Just wanted to put that out there.

Landy

Take your lame "biggot" accusations and shove them where the sun don't shine.

It's 'bigot'

It's people like YOU who contribute to the problem by trying to silence people's opinions so no one dare speak up.

Yet here you all are. From here it looks like the ones wanting inclusion and respect are the ones being shouted down.

People like YOU are why people stay silent when gangs groom and rape young girls.

WTF?

How do you know? Because the religion that he's ohso dedicated so says the exact opposite.

Perhaps because of the tears streaming down his face when he was watching the TV? Who knows, maybe he's a better judge of what his religion means to him than you are?

So many "moderates", it's hard to believe there can even be an issue. Yet the facts show that a huge numbers have absolutely abhorrent views and think it's acceptable to mutilate their daughters or kill them if they disobey.

Another subject change? Perhaps you should start another anti-muslim thread. God knows we could do with a few more of them.

It's nice to see the peeople of manchester don't share the same views that are prevelant on here. Jews christians and muslims all paying their respects, all joining in shouting down an EDL demonstration.

Landy

Or we could, y'know, try fighting the shits who do this and keep fighting until they are all dead.

Who are you going to kill? Let's have your strategy. People with beards could be shot on sight? Might be a good thing as it would stop the ridiculous fashion beards people are wearing at the moment.

How about shooting all women wearing a head covering? It'll stop them procreating and they could have a bomb under there couldn't they?

Or we could drop a few nukes on syria? Yeah that should sort it.

I saw some words from an english (sometimes bike) magazine writer I read when I can;

"Big crowds out in Albert Square. EDL seen off at the Arndale. Manchester stands collectively defiant. Not because of any parochial magic, not because of an idiosyncratic superstitious Manc steadfastness, but because of our universal humanity. Any collection of humans would react in the same way to an atrocity. And does, daily.

Sick of categories, of mis-categorisation, of dishonest, irrational identification, internal & external. A murderous nihilist wretch, with more in common with Ian Brady than Saladin, irrationally mis-categorises himself as part of a fictitious jihad. The far right, on the streets & in the cabinet offices, identify as crusaders. Idiots all over the world determined to attach themselves to causes, patterns, meanings they know deep down are phoney.
It's bollocks. There is only one clash of civilisations, & that's the age old clash between the jungle & the village. Between the predators & the co-operators. Fella called Stephen Jones was among the heroes last night - a homeless man who picked shrapnel out of kids' faces & cradled the dying. A fella excluded from the village. 'Cause predators deny abundance.
Down with what we are, up with what we could be. We stand together. Or we fall apart."

Ruby456

Let me also add, no catholic ever visted ireland and then went to commit terror acts in the name of catholicism (again, i have no love for the catholic church).morpheus

for morpheus in reply to the above

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/martin-galvin-he-may-be-older-but-his-hatred-remains-intact-30935500.html

hothabanero

@Landy: We are just trying to have a conversation about Islam two days after 22 kids were killed and your main concern seems to be to call us racists... what is wrong with you?

Landy

@Landy: We are just trying to have a conversation about Islam two days after 22 kids were killed and your main concern seems to be to call us racists... what is wrong with you?

Your first post on this thread - straight into an anti muslim, anti immigration diatribe.

Sad. But this kind of murderous terrorism is a feature rather than a bug of the "religion of peace".
This come in the wake of Merkel letting more than a million Muslims into Germany without any meaningful wetting, mostly young able-bodied men from a warzone who in a few years can freely travel around in Europe. You don't have to be a genius to guess what happens next.
UK must surely feel like a man running out of a burning building with his clothes on fire.
My thoughts go out to the people of Manchester...

My first post on this thread.

Taxi drivers from Manchester and Liverpool flooded to the site to take people home free of charge. Local hotels opened their doors and took in loads of kids and are doing everything they can to get them reunited with their parents. Scores of random acts of kindness by passers by to get people home and reunited.
Sometimes people are awesome.
Condolences and best wishes to those involved,

konceptual99

What's has that got to do with being complicit in supporting terrorism? Yes, islam needs to drag itself kicking and screaming out of the 17th century but that doesn't mean that all muslims support the bombings such as we have seen recently.

Of course not. I do not subscribe to a POV that says ban Islam, kick every Muslim out etc. etc. I know that the number of people who hold the most extreme of views and are prepared to commit atrocities is small. I also know that there is work going on by Muslims to root out extremism.

Articles like this...

https://mic.com/articles/151681/over-30-000-muslims-in-the-uk-marched-against-isis-of-course-you-didn-t-hear-about-it#.qvFHnpOi9

...illustrate that perhaps some of us white, middle class keyboard warriors need to kick our media into reporting what Muslims are doing and that Muslims work as hard as they can to help the rest of us see it too.

There are really positive views on secularisation from people with Muslim backgrounds as well. This is exactly what I would love to see...

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/secularislam/articles_and_books/a_call_to_the_muslims_of_the_world/

My key point is that the fundamental reason that groups like ISIS can create such a twisted world view is that the basis for their hatred exists in the form of religious texts that create a them and us situation. Just like with JWs, most of the time it's perfectly feasible to marry modern, secular, permissive Western culture with most of what is in the Bible or the Quran but there is a point where those of faith have to draw a line. JWs will allow a death of a person due to their blood policy. They will shun people simply for not being able to curb their sexuality. They will put their trust in iron age superstition above common sense and empirical evidence.

In so doing they let their so called tolerance and inclusiveness be seriously tempered by their adherence to a religious ideology.

When the vast majority of Muslims have as secular and nominal a view of their religion as most Christians do, taking the bits that support modern, progressive values and dumping the medieval nonsense then the basis for extremism will be severely diminished.

I have no reason to hate or distrust any Muslim I come across. I really do not want to see our communities become more divided. I see no benefit in the wholesale criminalisation of an entire religion, just as I disagree with the Russian's action against Witnesses there. However, just as I challenge Witnesses, as far as I can given my circumstances, on those aspects of doctrine that fly in the face of progression, I see no reason that Muslims should not be asked to search their own hearts about what exactly it is in their core teachings that allows such bilious hatred to be extrapolated.

cofty

There is something going on at a college at Trafford. Army police and bomb disposal on scene. Air exclusion area in force.

_Morpheus

@ruby- let me clarify. As i reread i see i left out a key phrase from that quote that would have clarified my point:

no catholic ever was radicalized in ireland and went on to commit acts of terror in other contries in the way musliums frequently do.

Also i read that article, right up until this quote:

Galvin is typical of a particularly stupid, tunnel-visioned strain in Irish-America, that finds a romantic vision that suits and never questions it.

That quote ended any percived value in that tribe.

Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed

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