by cofty 342 Replies latest members politics
It was political movement, pure and simple, with a common religious undertone as result of geography for the most part.
In belfast there's a graveyard that has to be shared by catholics and protestants. There's an underground, yes underground, wall to separate the two sections of graveyard.
That's how non-religious it is over there.
The GLOBAL issue of MODERN DAY Islam cannot be compared to this past nonsense. False equivalence. Stop cherry picking. It's also not just Jihad, its civil rights violations. I just saw a news headline yesterday about someone in Indonesia getting caned for "having gay sex". When you all take a step back from your bubbles and look at the suffering islam produces on a global scale, it's absolutely disgusting and cannot be compared to anything else.
Ruby, shame on you. So typical.
Religious (muslim) idiot kills innocent children and the first thing SJW apologists do is start bitching about the backlash against Muslims and "xenophobia". Completely f-cking stupid. Take your trendy social justice words and shove them straight up your safe space!
Their fundamental claim is that we should not exist. That is their demand - that we die.
Or that we should submit to their disgusting religion.
Can we just start colonizing Mars already and offer all muslims the chance to move there? This way they can actually rule the world, that world that is.
I for one am not trying to claim there was never a religious component to The Troubles. The fact that the two sides lined up on sectarian lines was down to the complex political history of Ireland and the British, something of course that reflected the centuries old religious and political turmoil between the Catholics and Protestants. In that respect they are intrinsically linked and those divisions still exist in the 6 counties.
The point though is that the IRA did not target Protestants purely for their religious beliefs (ie. seeking to change them) - it was for their support for the union with the British. The violence escalated for political above religious reasons. If it had been possible to broker some peaceful solution before Bloody Monday (or if that had never happened) then The Troubles may never had occurred as the goals were political not religious.
I don't mean to diminish the sectarian divide - it still dominates aspects of life in NI as well as having parallels in Scottish culture as well - it's just that no Catholics were ever out to kill every Protestant or vice versa in NI - it was about doing what was needed to try and secure the political aims. The IRA did not have a religious wing, it had a political wing - Sinn Fein. Of course individuals and communities were targeted just for being Protestant or Catholic but ultimately for what they represented politically.
In terms of ISIS, yes they may have political objectives in terms of land grab but the overriding drive comes from theological ideology. You could give ISIS a whole bunch of land and vow never to talk to them again but they would still want you as an infidel to die.
This all comes from the divisive nature of simply following a religion. Most, if not all, religions teach that believers are better than non-believers. Most, if not all, incorporate rituals and behaviours that identify the believer as different - actions that if not followed lower your credibility within the faith.
Christianity has for the most part had these actions undermined to the point where they are an irrelevance. Even for believers it doesn't really matter if you don't take things as literally or fundamentally as once before. The same is not true of Islam.
I don't fully agree with Simon in terms of how far I think we should go in challenging Islam and Muslims in general as I think we might disagree on the danger posed by a so called moderate Muslim, however I do think it is time for all Muslims to examine their own beliefs and what the various rules and traditions they follow really says about their willingness to be inclusive and tolerant.
I find it very difficult to believe that the extremist mentalities will ever really diminish until the majority of Muslims truly are moderate and have dumped all these medieval concepts of morality and social hierarchy. Simply accepting an ideology that promotes division, even at a low level, puts you into conflict at some point with a society that is permissive and inclusive.
I would add finally that this is not an issue only with Islam. It's an issue for any type of fundamentalist belief and is no better illustrated than by Jehovah's Witnesses.
freemindfade the past has to be allowed in so that we learn for the present. ISIS are fighting to set up a political state - isn't that obvious? totalitarianism is a better definition - then we can allow things like communism in its extreme left wing ideology, nazism, extreme rightwing ideology as well to stand side by side with ISIS - they all show similar zealotry and given the chance would use violence and criminal acts to achieve their aims. this is not to diminsh ISIS' crimes but to understand that this has happened before.
the past has to be allowed in so that we learn for the present
The past can never perfectly imitate the present. You can learn from it but you cannot honestly say in a completely literal way it repeats itself.
Most radicals and zealots of past bad ideas have since declined. ISIS is just one brand of Islamic filth. They all follow the same disgusting prophet, the same disgusting book, and the radicals are at the fundamental theocratic CENTER NOT FRINGE.
And Nazism was a far right wing SOCIALIST ideology.
who is is saying the past repeats itself?
Understanding the past will only take you so far.
Trying to apply understanding, politics and other elements of a bygone era will not necessarily fit into our particular modern circumstances.
Landy, i appreciate that you dont want to paint all musliums as terrorists but your comparison is short sighted, deeply flawed and betrays a lack of knowledge regarding both the ira and radical islamic terror.
I'm sure Mr. Mohammed from my local shop wasn't involved in the bombing, and pretty sure, in fact I know, he's as horrified as I am. He doesn't have a secret agenda or a desire to see all westerners die. He just wants to get on with his life.
i find the broad brush approach to tainting all muslims as terrorists pretty fucking offensive to be truthful. And I also find it a shame that the only valid opinion on here with only one or two exceptions is that all muslims should be bombed, sent to mars, or killed.
A good proportion of you should still be JWs as you're still a pack of judgemental cunts.
Konceptal has expanded well on the point regarding the ira and i share his views. Let me also add, no catholic ever visted ireland and then went to commit terror acts in the name of catholicism (again, i have no love for the catholic church).
The inablity of some to point out that that a fundamental interpretation of islam is the root cause of these murders is mind boggling to me.
Fundamental islam is causing these attacks. Not a political agenda (although that is a companant but only in so far as they want their religion to be the sole political party on earth). Not a human rights agenda. Not territoral disputes.
Islam. Isalm is the motivating force. Say it as many times as you need to understand. Fundamentalist islam is the motovating force. Fundamentalist islam is the problem.
Not all musliums. But those to the whom shoe fits are all fundamentalist islamists.
Islam is the problem.
