Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed (page 20)

Hecce

Coffy

This is not a "thought crime"; this is more like an act of war and the rules regarding criminals of war should apply.

cofty

Holding radical views is not an act of war.

Executing those we consider to be potentially dangerous would be a war crime.

I'm undecided whether detention of those who express sympathy with terrorism would be counter productive. Maajid Nawaz thinks it would be wrong. He was imprisoned in Egypt for pro-jihadi opinions.

More importantly he is sure it would make things worse. We need to do things that result in less terrorism not in things that just make us feel better. That's what led to Gulf War II

Hecce

Holding radical views is not an act of war.
Executing those we consider to be potentially dangerous would be a war crime.

This was a little bit more than "holding radical views".

Lord Haw Haw did a little bit less than this person.

cofty

Hecce perhaps if you took a minute to read the conversation it would clear up this misunderstanding.

Simon

Executing those we consider to be potentially dangerous would be a war crime.

I disagree. It needs to be justified and plotting an attack is enough justification in my book. But then I never understood the "outrage" some had when the SAS shot IRA people in the act of planting bombs as somehow wrong.

Where is the line? Someone has to be on a bus with a bomb strapped to their back? Or in the line at HomeDepot buying a pressure cooker? What exactly is "enough". Is a soldier wearing a uniform that hasn't fired a shot a legitimate target?

More importantly he is sure it would make things worse. We need to do things that result in less terrorism not in things that just make us feel better. That's what led to Gulf War II

I respect his opinions, he obviously knows a lot about things with first-hand experience, but I also think he's capable of having blind-spots.

It seems that the Muslim world wants to blame the west for things regardless of what we do or don't do. It's our fault if we intervene in a conflict and it's also our fault if we don't. If two Muslim sects are slaughtering each other and we intervene then we then have two Muslim sects wanting to fight "the great satan". Why is it never the fault of any of the heavily armed Muslim countries for not intervening?

Nothing we do or don't do will really change things and things were better when we were fighting them than when we weren't. So we may as well kill them.

A large part of the current crisis is caused because we stopped fighting them and instead drew empty lines in the sand and relied too heavily on terrorism ourselves (too many drone strikes without sufficient care).

hothabanero

@Cofty: So now that we are agreed that shooting people for thought crimes isn't an option how about internment?

I don't know what you mean. If a person is holding a gun to someones head, and you know he is going to pull the trigger, is it then okay to shoot him? I think every reasonable person would say yes but the reason he is getting shot is because of what he is thinking. Mindlessly labelling stuff as "thoughtcrimes" to invoke Orwell and stop discussion is not useful IMO.

I agree with what Simon said. If you are a dangerous radical engaged in this kind of terrorist activity nothing should be off the tables. Do you agree?

If so, we actually agree, and so you didn't have to tell me I am stupid or spell my name wrong.

The Rebel

I hope what I am about to write is accepted as my personal view, because it's not written to be confrontational. My Muslim friends, are a pleasure to be with. And like most of us they struggle for money, and they try to be good people.

Yesterday I asked my Muslin friend who is a nurse if she, her sister, or her parents think themselves better than me, because they are Muslim. The answer was NO. And I believe that. Our conversation also bought up these points .

1) Of over one thousand terroist attacks in Europe in the past five years, less than 2% have been committed by Muslims.

2) Since the year 2000,five muslims have won the noble peace price.

I didn't shy away from asking some confrontational questions. I said that I felt her family was controlled by a religion which I believe is dangerous. Her reply was neither her nor her sister have been bought up by her parents to think they are better than anyone else regardless of being Muslim. I asked why she therefore wears a head scarf, and does her religion dictate who she must marry? The head scarf was worn because its her preferred option, and as for marriage she says she will only marry a man she loves.

I appreciated this conversation, and the spirit in which we discussed the subject. My overall impression of her and her family is that religion does not play an important part in these people's life's. I personally believe it's the same case with my other Muslim friends.

But what does scare me, is that we have 3500 suspected terroists on the U.K government watch list. If nothing is done about this number, then that number will soon be multiplied by a hundred and that's a very scary army. I therefore believe something has to be done about this.

I think it also worth mentioning, that I a man, had this conversation with a Muslim lady about 30 years old, and also the fact that she smokes. I mention this becase as a strict Muslim,or a Witness both these would have been no, no's.

Are their others on this thread who have Muslim friends?

barry

I know a number of muslims the first muslim I got to know told a group of us 'when the muslims take over if we didn't change our religion we would be beheaded'. Thats the only one that upset me but he is still my friend I just have to make sure he hasn't got a knife in his hand I'm very conscious of that.

I have noticed every time there is a terrorist attack and i meet muslims I know they are extra friendly.

Rebel, they are lying 1000 terrorists in the last five years and less than 2% are by muslims? Are they serious and do they think we are all stupid? The reason muslims wear a headscarf is because muslims and especially muslim women have a concept of honour and shame. Muslims believe a women without a scarf is a whore, check it out.

At the time of the ayatollah's takeover of Iran many questions were considered one being can a women wear western clothes under a burka? After some consideration the religious authorities said that wearing western clothes the womens thighs would rub together and the sexual heat would be transferred up her body and through her eyes [ only her eyes would be showing in the burka] and send men crazy.

Muslims will lie to further Islam it is called Taquia or Kitman. Muslims have some dreadful ideas just look at the pew research.

The Rebel

Barry, thank you for your comment . As a former witness, I should know by now, that I should source what I am told.

The Rebel "'Of 1000 terroists attacks in Europe in the last five years only 2% were carried out by Muslims" I have now tried to source this statement, and whilst " Islamist terroists aim to cause mass casualties" in 201O according to Europol, of 249 terroist attacks only 3 were considered to be related to Islamist militancy.

When I have more time, try to research this further, but :-

A) In no way am I trying to defend what happened in Manchester.

B) From my own part of view, the statistics however low, are not minimizing anything.

C) I am aware of the dangers of Islam.

However I personally believe I have Muslim friends who are good people.

Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed

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