Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed (page 22)

Simon

The head scarf was worn because its her preferred option.

That is exactly the same kind of indoctrinated answer that JWs give out. She might even believe that it's her own choice even though it isn't.

I'm sure all those women wearing Burqas do it from "their own choice" too and the ones who protested wearing the Hijab before it was forced upon them suddenly changed their mind and wanted to wear it once a man said they had to.

Why anyone with half a brain should know it's pure BS and evidence of the cult mind control and oppression:

How many non-Muslims wear Burqas, Niqabs and Hijabs, just because they "want to"?

The west has extremist devout women who wear silly head coverings - nuns. That is their choice. Notice how no one else choses it - precisely because the genuine free choice is there.

By supporting the notion that it's their choice, you are supporting their continued oppression and control. Well done. Clap clap.

The Rebel

Simon thank you for your reply.

Yes I have friends who are Muslim. My guess is they are Muslim because they were born Muslim. My guess is that is as far as many Muslim peoples thinking goes.

Re the head scarfs.We have volleyball pitches in the park, and if I had my son/ daughter playing volleyball " only to show off their body" whatever the age, but particularly if under 16 years of age,as a father I would be dissapointed in that behavior. ( I hope I am not old fashioned. volleyball is great, and the great players with great bodies make it a great sport)

And you are correct. There is a deception going on somewhere. But maybe if I were a Muslim and rejected the evil in the religion, the power of the head scarf is hard to throw away. Both as a Muslim, parent and a Muslim daughter. Religion rules by fear....yet when the chips are down, in old age I am grateful for the Muslim nurses that care for the old.

Thats not saying you are wrong . In fact I agree you are correct. I believe anybody who puts a religion before how they view individuals is a dangerous person. I just don't believe all Muslims do that.

The Rebel

I started a controversial topic once, and Cofty sent me a p.m with great advice. " choose your battles carefully"

I see my views and opinions on this subject are not held by the majority. I apologie if I have offended anyone. Because that's not the way, and so what's the point in that? I hope we can all be friends and share views on other threads.

Hecce

Please take into consideration what Muslims do to each other on their side of the world, mostly due to religion and then you will understand what they are doing to us.

The Rebel: nothing wrong with your comments, very informative.

Simon

My guess is they are Muslim because they were born Muslim. My guess is that is as far as many Muslim peoples thinking goes.

I think a great many Muslims are Muslims because they cannot leave. It's like Scientology at mass scale.

It's the easiest religion to join and the hardest to leave - sometimes at threat of death.

Re the head scarfs.We have volleyball pitches in the park, and if I had my son/ daughter playing volleyball " only to show off their body" whatever the age, but particularly if under 16 years of age,as a father I would be dissapointed in that behavior.

That makes little sense to me. If someone is walking to the shops with a coat on, why do they still need it? Are they showing off their body then as well? Are all girls who don't wear a bag over their heads "sluts"?

Insisting that women cover themselves up lest they arouse men just propagates the notion that they are sexual objects to be possessed and nothing more. It is not a culture that respects women.

But maybe if I were a Muslim and rejected the evil in the religion, the power of the head scarf is hard to throw away.

Well, not least because for some people it means risking their life. It is not an accident that it's a very visible sign of subjugation.

Religion rules by fear....yet when the chips are down, in old age I am grateful for the Muslim nurses that care for the old.

I wonder if you'd feel that confident if you were an ex-muslim under threat of death for apostasy ... let's hope your nurse values the hippocratic oath more than the blessing of allah or mohammed.

I believe anybody who puts a religion before how they view individuals is a dangerous person. I just don't believe all Muslims do that.

Well "all" is an easy bar to disprove which is why I didn't say it.

But the fact is that of all faiths / religions in the world, Muslims regularly support abhorrent and extreme treatment and behaviour in very large numbers. Not just the terrorists and those in dysfunctional states, but the regular "in your community" people living in the west.

Again, it could be another deception but I don't see any reason for it - if anything it's a glimpse of the true attitudes and opinions.

hothabanero

@Cofty: By the way Hot holding a gun to somebody's head is not a "thought crime".

No... and that was not my point.

my point was that if you hold a gun to someones head and the police shoots you, you get shot for what you are thinking. When it is explain the police will say the shot you because of the gun, but if you think about it it is really because the police thought that you might THINK about pulling the trigger. In other words you got shot for a thought that might have been in your head.

think about it!

for terrorists and dangerous radicals we don't have to guess what thoughts are in their heads.. they tell us all the time!

Not so insane anymore?

Simon

for terrorists and dangerous radicals we don't have to guess what thoughts are in their heads.. they tell us all the time!

I agree. It really depends on what you want to use as the indication of the intended action.

IMO waiting for someone to be pointing a gun or carrying a bomb is way too late and as we've seen - not all can be caught and stopped. Buying materials is "safer" in that it's more clear cut as evidence, but I think it's reasonable to look further up the pipeline. In far too many cases the people carrying out attacks have a history of preaching hatred, promoting violence and generally being shitty human beings.

Why allow them to kill much better human beings?.

cofty

if you hold a gun to someones head and the police shoots you, you get shot for what you are thinking - Hot

No you don't. You get shot for holding a gun to somebody's head.

You still don't have a clue why it is morally wrong to kill somebody for a thought crime do you?

Don't play semantic games. It is a sure sign of somebody who can't support the reasonableness of their argument.

hothabanero

@Cofty:

You still don't have a clue why it is morally wrong to kill somebody for a thought crime do you?

How often do you start the evening by telling your wife: "You still don't have a clue why..." and end the evening with her being happy? I am glad you are no longer deliberately misspelling my name but assertions like that are not helping anyone.

Like I explain. The police report will say: "Suspect shot for holding a gun to his/her head". But the underlying reason the suspect was shot was because the police believed his actions indicated he was THINKING about shooting the victim.

Let me explain further.

Suppose the police KNEW the gunman did NOT THINK about shooting the victim. His thoughts were: I am NOT going to pull the trigger no matter what.

In that case there would be no real reason to shoot him right? They could take their time and perhaps just walk up and take away his gun.

On the other hand, suppose the police KNEW the gunman WAS thinking "I am going to shoot the victim". In that case they would have EVERY REASON to shoot him.

The thoughts matter. In fact, they make all the difference.

cofty

Rather than waste time with your bizarre logic let's get down to specific examples.

Working backwards from the most urgent where do we draw the line?

In the following scenarios all the subjects were UK (or if you prefer US) citizens. None of them have dual nationality.

#1 - A man in a shopping centre pulls a gun from his bag and shouts "Allahu Akbar".

#2 - A Muslim man returns from Syria having fought for ISIS. Whether or not he killed anybody during that time is unknowable.

#3 - A Muslim man who is being watched by security services is observed leaving a hardware shop having bought materials that could potentially be used in bomb making.

#4 - A Muslim man posts his approval of the Manchester murders on Facebook and boasts that he will do something similar when he is called to do so.

#5 - A Muslim man writes on Facebook that the Manchester victims deserved to die for rejecting Islam.

I have no hesitation in saying that number one should be shot but according to Hothab all of them should be executed along with their families. Is that really what anybody believes?

If any are not to be executed what should be done with them?

Explosion at Manchester Arena - Fatalities Confirmed

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