by reniaa 421 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Who sits on the throne? Only God.
Gnat,
Who sits at this God's right hand? Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Simple. Not three persons making us one GOD. Just GOD and the now risen Christ alongside Him. Trinitarians simply cannot understand something so simple.
Joseph
Who else is eternal besides God?
Jesus is eternal- he was not created.
| Rev 5:13 | And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. |
Who was the Jehovah that spoke with Abraham face to face? Remember NO ONE has SEEN the Father!
The One Who was to be incarnated as Jesus of Nazareth!
Who was the Jehovah that wrestled with Jacob? Remember NO ONE has SEEN the Father!
The One Who was to be incarnated as Jesus of Nazareth!
Jesus Christ is the incarnate Jehovah. He's NOT the Father!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Sylvia
And she clearly has not even a basic knowlege of our Bible canon and how it is arranged and books chosen.
Lovelylil
What? She did a pretty good job with the book of Enoch and how quoting from such non-inspired sources does not not validate them in their entirety. This was discussed some time ago here on JWD as well. Common sense tells us that. If I quote from the New York Times does this validate this same article or other articles and information contained in it? No! When I quote from threads like yours for example, does this validate them? No! But I can use such information to make a point either for or against such thinking. The scriptures do this as well.
Joseph
Joseph,
Did you notice how Reniaa said Apocrypha means that God did not approve of these books? Well, since God himself did not pick and arrange the books we have in our official Bible canon, how would Reniaa know that God does not accept these books as inspired?
Another thought to ponder........Since Jude in our accepted biblical cannon quotes from Enoch, it clearly shows that he was familiar with the book and accepted Enoch's testimony in it as true. So how can you and Reniaa reject it?
Do you think God himself hand picked the books that are in our biblical cannon, arranged it and dropped the book down from heaven to us? Or, do you believe that he used Holy Spirit to guide men in their picking and choosing of the books included in our canon?
Well, if you choose the latter..........these men included the Apocryphya in the original bible canon. It is the Protestants during the reformation who rejected the Apocrypha books and removed them from the Bible. For thousands of years, these books were in the Bible and prior to that, they were read and widely distributed in the early church. Hence the reference in Jude about Enoch's prophecies.
Do yourself a favor and read up on the history of the Bible and how we got it so you can understand so you can give a legitimate response next time. Reniaa just copied over some information about the Apocrypha and then didn't even read her own information, because nowhere did it state that God himself rejected these books. It stated the Protestants only rejected them. Are you guys protestants?
Lilly
Jesus is eternal- he was not created.
If Jesus was created he would be included in "every creature which is in heaven".
He is excluded form this group as the verse shows that every creature which is in heaven gives "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
IssacAustin,
Nonsense. He was included in the introduction to this verse if you bothered to read it like this: Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
The speaker therefore excluded this Lamb from blessing himself. The verse has nothing to do with who created who and when anyway. For a book that has been around a long time, why is it that so few seem to understand it?
Joseph
ok, Joseph...but let me get back on track to what the verse is saying. The Son and Father received equal worship there. Either the Son is God or he is not. Mutually exclusive. If he is God he correclty recieved worship along with the Father. If not, he should have been there with the creatures in hevaen worshipping the Father.
One more thing Joseph,
Jude considered the book of Enoch inspired and that is why he quoted a prophecy from this book. Here it is again in case you missed it the first time;
Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
This is a direct quote from Enoch 2.
Lilly
Lovelylil,
Apocrypha, how do we know? This is another discussion not related to this thread but was discussed here on JWD. Can you prove her wrong? Can you even prove that every book in our Cannon is inspired? There are some that exclude a few for good reason. Have you ever read the verse that says: Mt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. The person that said this knew a little bit about such things and I agree with Him.
Joseph
Joseph,
Study the history of the bible and how we got it. Then you will understand what I am talking about.
As far as Matthew, how can you call me a hypocrite? What did I do that is hypocritical, try to teach you and Reniaa what the word Apocrypha really means?
She is the one who copied over the meaning and yet did not read it because it clearly says these books were removed from the official bible canon by the Protestants. If you are going to copy information, you should at least read it first. Don't you agree?
Now, I really need to go off to work............I am late already. I'll leave the wrangling with you and Reniaa up to the others on this thread for now. Lilly
