What hope is there then? (page 18)

isaacaustin

Sayitsnotso,

How do you feel of the org's insertion of the name Jehovah into the NT?

sayitsnotso

Here is my experience with your "loving brotherhood".

There will always be some that do not have a christlike attitude. In time they will have to answer for their behavior. They may even leave the brotherhood, or turn around.

But overall, the brotherhood is loving. Humans however are not perfect and even in the first century they had some problems with malicious slander. But would you say first century Christains weren't loving?

sacolton

people regardless of how nice, kind, or loving they may have been because they did not board the ark

The ark was never meant to carry anyone else except Noah and his family (and all the animals, two of each kind). It wouldn't have mattered at all if the entire world wanted to board the ark (if you recall, when it started raining - they begged and pleaded for Noah to open the door so they could get in).

Regardless, would you not agree that if you were raised Mormon, you would believe that Joseph Smith was the true prophet and he received gold tablets from Jesus to rebuild the church? If you were raised Muslim, you would believe Islam was the true religion and Mahammad was the true prophet who restored the original faith. So you see, it all depends on what you were taught growing up. Why not investigate on your own and come to your own conclusions instead of just accepting what the Watchtower tells you to believe?

palmtree67

SINS: overall, the brotherhood is loving.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. My experience was no mere "lapse" on the part of some. It went on for over 10 years and was ingnored, thereby condoned by the elders. It wasn't just that it happened, it was how it was handled ( not handled.)

Say what you want, this is NOT normal behaviour even by "worldly" standards.

It was what convinced me to look elsewhere for true Christian love.

sayitsnotso

How do you feel of the org's insertion of the name Jehovah into the NT?

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand I feel that the Hebrew quotations and where context is strongly implicit make sense. On the other hand there is no proof that the original manuscripts had Jehovah's name in it. (But there is also no proof to state otherwise, since we don't have those manuscripts).

Therefore for this reason I'm undecided about the accuracy of using the name in other contexts, despite the J references. See Truth in Translation - Jason BeDuhn.

sacolton

BeDuhn's PhD from the University of Indiana is in Comparative Religious Studies, not in Biblical languages. He is not recognized in the scholarly community as an expert in Biblical Greek.

PSacramento

BeDuhn's PhD from the University of Indiana is in Comparative Religious Studies, not in Biblical languages. He is not recognized in the scholarly community as an expert in Biblical Greek.

Jason also argues against Christ's divinity, so he has pretty clear biasis towards translations that downplay it, hence he "agrees" with the NWT in regards to "a god" in John 1:1 but even Jason is against the insertion of "Jehovah" in the NT, as are every other shcolar or theologian outside the WT, especially in certain places like Romans 10:13.

isaacaustin

How do you feel of the org's insertion of the name Jehovah into the NT?

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand I feel that the Hebrew quotations and where context is strongly implicit make sense. On the other hand there is no proof that the original manuscripts had Jehovah's name in it. (But there is also no proof to state otherwise, since we don't have those manuscripts).

Therefore for this reason I'm undecided about the accuracy of using the name in other contexts, despite the J references. See Truth in Translation - Jason BeDuhn.

My reply:

You are correct about the 5000+ manuscripts not showing the presence of the Divine name. Regarding NT quotes of OT verses, this also makes a of huge assumption- that the OT verse was read verbatim. There is no proof of that. Let's take a supposed Jehovah verse from the NWT:

Matt 22:

34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: 42 “What do YOU think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.” 43 He said to them: “How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’? 45 If, therefore, David calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?” 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, nor did anyone dare from that day on to question him any further.

You see the Divine name inserted in verse 37. We know it was the Jewish customer to say "Lord" as opposed to utter the Divine name, considered to sacred to speak. Doing so was considered blasphemous. Verse 45 states no one dared reply or question Jesus following the previous attempts to trap him. had Jesus said the Divine name the religious leaders certainly would not have kept quiet, but felt they trapped Jesus.

Stating that there is no proof that the Divine name did not exist in original manuscripts which no longer exist can not be used to support the insertion. This also begs the question of not only how the scribes could have been so complete as to stamp out the Divine name of all existing manuscipts over multiple continents, yet miss 'Hallellujah' a few times in Revelation. And further as to why the OT manuscripts were left unaltered in this regard.

OUTLAW

Do you have any concrete proof of these claims? I tried to do a few google queryies but could only find people claiming this. Not an actual official link.....sayitsnotso

"A Few Google Queryies"..

???????????????????..LOL!!

You put as much research into Rand Cam,as you have the WBT$..

Your Lazy..Get off your Ass!!..

Try a little harder..I don`t do homework for the Lazy..

I also own shares in Rand Cam..I know who my fellow Share Holders are..

The WBT$ and I.....Are Invested in War..

......................... ...OUTLAW

journey-on

sayitsnotso....First of all, welcome aboard.

"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step"~LaoTzu

You have taken the first step in simply asking the question. After being raised a JW, my personal fade from the organization, began with an innocent question. In those days, there was no Internet with a group of intelligent diverse people to talk to who also had questions like me. So, I took my questions to the elders and was told in no uncertain terms that if "you have to ask these kinds of questions, you are spiritually weak!" That unloving response was MY first step.

My suggestion:

#1 Learn how to pray properly (sometimes an early fader erroneously connects prayer to The Organization...don't do that. Remember, you have a personal connection to the eternal creator through one mediator, Christ)

#2 Learn what/who Christ is and what/who the Holy Spirit is. (It is really really hard to shed the Watchtower's teachings and be able to look at things through clear lenses.)

#3 Have faith and work with it. (If your intentions are pure and honest...if you are sincerely seeking Truth...you will be lead to it. It takes work, but the work is what tempers yourself, like fire tempers metal.)

What hope is there then?

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