An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 48)

jay88

This thread is officially over --- We have our answer!

tec: I DO know that God does not act outside of love.

Millions of innocent folk die out of love,.......

You know......I may have been looking at this wrong the entire time,

edit: PSOC

still thinking

tec: I DO know that God does not act outside of love

So, does that mean that God sees things and chooses not to act?

Is not acting a form of love?....would you say that about the people who didn't act to help that child who was run over in China recently?

still thinking you can be the judge of what is want and what is need. Also, every time there is a need (like the child that was hit) you tell the god. OK? Remember World killed the helper, and I am pOSITIVE you would not have helped that one. I have no idea why?????

still thinking

N.drew....I really don't know what to say to your comment

AGuest

Since I value my "pearls" (may you all have peace!)... I will only address two matters specifically:

1. My life is and has been anything but mundane. I haven't travelled as much as I would like, but will if and when I get the chance. I have great kids, a great husband, a great house, decent car... an education... and very good work (both in substance and payment).

2. I serve God because I love Him. I love Him... because I know Him. I know Him... because He was shown to me by His Son... whom I know and love. That love is not based on what they CAN do for me... but what has already BEEN done for me. I do not hope to live in heaven... because I know that the earth is for sons of man. So, while I know that I will be given the kind of body Adham had BEFORE his error... one that can go and out between the spirit and physical realms... and that I WILL go back and forth between the two*... it is UPON THE EARTH... that I will ultimately reside.

*Although my dwelling will be upon the earth, there will be need, from time to time, to enter... and take my "station"... before the Most Holy One of Israel.

You don't get it? Well, perhaps you are among those of whom my Lord is recorded to have said that it is not FOR you to get. Not that you're not "worthy"... but because you lack faith. So what? Not my problem, not my concern... not my fault. Don't like what I believe? Your problem. I may not like what YOU believe (or don't believe). So... what? You don't add or take away one cubit from my lifespan... nor I yours.

If your only purpose in life... indeed, your only "joy" is in attempting to rob me of mine... hear this: it won't happen. Because my joy... my peace... and what I believe and/or know... is not contingent upon what YOU believe... THINK you believe... know... or think YOU know. Not one iota. Afraid I might unduly influence someone else? Then I would exhort you to go and share what you believe... or don't believe... with that someone. Because I can't... and don't... control what another believes. I simply share the truth... as it has been shared with me.

Whether you hear... or refrain. Makes absolutely NO difference to ME... because it is not I who chooses who is "deserving." It is my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel. Got a problem with that? Don't "like" it? You really must, then, take it up with them. Because I am just a servant. I don't control them... or you.

Again, peace to you all... and I mean that, truly: may you find some way to have some peace in YOUR life. Because I have a buttload in mine... which is why I have NO reservations sharing what I do.

A slave of Christ... to time INDEFINITE,

SA, who you can stick a fork in... 'cause I'm done with this one...

tec

Millions of innocent folk die out of love,.......

I'm not understanding the connection between this and what you highlighted from me, Jay?

So, does that mean that God sees things and chooses not to act?

That would imply that God is not acting. I think He is. Showing mercy (to the righteous and unrighteous alike) is an action. Sending His Son (to teach and to grant life) is an action.

Him not acting in a way that we think he should be acting is not the same as not acting at all.

Is not acting a form of love?....would you say that about the people who didn't act to help that child who was run over in China recently?

For the first... that would depend on what sort of action a situation might demand.

And no, I would not say that about the people who didn't act to help that child who was run over in China recently.

However, I don't think it is a fair analogy.

Those people cannot grant that child life, or restore her life. God can.

Perhaps there is simply no way for us (or the people in China) to realize just how far off the reservation we (they) have fallen with regard to love, until we see the natural consequences of our ways in the form of a little girl, run over twice, her cries and her torment ignored by passerbys.

Few people learn unless they are forced to face the consequences of their actions. That is why, after many bail-outs and such that some parents might do for a wayward/criminal adult child, at some point those parents have to let their kid stand or fall on their own. In the hopes that they learn.

If we want to do things our own way, then should we not have to face the consequences?

Peace,

Tammy

WontLeave

Scripture please?

1Cor 13:8-

I must correct my initial statement: Faith and hope also endure, along with love. My point, however, remains: All other manifestations of Holy Spirit were temporary. Come on, this is milk. We're not even talking about ambiguous, prophetic symbolism, here. This is plain speech, stating a plain point.

A USA Today poll, a few years ago, revealed 85% of professed "Christians" admit never having read the Bible. I'm thinking, of the remaining 15%, some were lying and others were convinced they had, after years of attending church. In reality, churches generally recycle the same "proof texts" for their pet doctrines to the exclusion of the vast majority of Scripture. Yet, we have people claiming to live their lives by a book they've never read.

Now, consider the depth and sheer size of the Bible. The average person can't make heads or tails of a tax form or a legal document, but they believe they have a flawless grasp on the Bible. Throw the mentally-unstable into the mix and now we have people hearing "the voice of God" and he's supposedly telling them what to believe, so they don't have to be rational, logical, or even Scripturally-accurate. They can just make up whatever they want, then act like they're above it all, because they've been miraculously instilled with truth. How, exactly, these people add to a discussion, I have no idea. Unfortunately, they seem to be the vast majority of those who want to jump up and claim to speak for God, much to the chagrin of those of us who actually do read the Bible and understand the vast majority of it without any difficulty.

Granted, prophecy is often impossible to accurately identify until it's fulfilled; as demonstrated repeatedly by end-of-the-world cults like JWs, Family Radio, etc. Most of the Bible is not intended to be allegorical, though. But it's still not an elementary school reader. Sadly, the Downing Effect is running rampant here and everybody thinks they're intellectuals, philosophers, and Bible scholars.

tec

1Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knoweldge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

One - I bolded the parts that are pertinent to the point you are trying to make. This verse does not say that these things have passed away; only that they will. When? When perfection comes. Has that come yet Won'tleave?

But more important than that, if you read the entire chapter 13, you will see that Paul is making a point about none of those gifts meaning anything at all... without love.

I have read the bible, cover to cover, many times btw. But that doesn't mean anything at all... even knowledge means nothing at all... without love. The point of the entire chapter, which seems to have been lost on you. Perhaps because it is lost on the ones who told you what these verses were supposed to mean?

Peace to you (and little more looking at the log in your own eye, rather than the speck in others),

Tammy

WontLeave

when perfection comes

The Koine here means "complete" not "perfect". The word "perfect", while not entirely incorrect, eludes to things beyond the intent of the text. Stop clinging to falsehoods. We know the gift of tongues is gone: Every person babbling like an idiot in Pentecostal churches is faking. We know healing is gone: Every person claiming to do so at Southern Baptist revivals is faking. Any gifts you (or anyone else) believe you have are delusions. Any voices you hear are not God. Jesus doesn't keep the paperboy from throwing the Times behind the bushes. He didn't help your cousin quit smoking. He didn't clear up your nephew's acne. Any of the things you believe are gifts from the Holy Spirit either didn't happen and you only imagined them or are pure coincidence. You want to say faith, hope, and love are still granted by Holy Spirit, I'll go along with that. But nobody is granting you supernatural knowledge or abilities. The more you insist it does, the nuttier you sound.

I have read the bible, cover to cover, many times

Reading and understanding are entirely different things.

Perhaps because it is lost on the ones who told you what these verses were supposed to mean?

Unlike some people posting in this thread, I can read. Recognizing the pronunciation of the words on the page isn't enough. I don't need anyone to explain to me what words mean. This is how churches get away with the ridiculous lies they tell; their congregations are filled with dolts.

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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