An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 89)

TheUbermensch

Whatever you say Psac.

Sure, we're biased, but the way you described the goings-on in this thread is COMPLETELY one-sided. Compare "This is what I believe and why" to "what you believe is delusional because I disagree with you."

N.drew

The question is not burden of proof for god but rather what determines whether a god is real or fake. What determines a true god from a false one.

Power

What determines what or why the christian god is superior to others.

Love

PSacramento

I've noticed how easy it is for non-believers to throw terms like " ignorant", "delusional", "Irrational", and worse of course and I can't leave out how believers lack "critical thinking skills" and are "uneducated about the truths "in the bible, etc, etc.

Of course some believers are just as bad.

But tell me, what did YOU get out of this thread?

TheUbermensch

What love is shown in the world by God?

N.drew

To describe the non-believers here I almost never, or never (I forget) thought "delusional".

I might describe you non-believers, if someone twisted my arm, as one of these; preoccupied, selfish, scared, shallow, immature, joking, way too logical to be much fun, frozen (in time), angry, drunk, hopeless, too smart for their own good, and/or rational (thank you God). What a wonderful thing the internet is!!! (should I explain that?) I think..... never mind!

N.drew

Ho hum....What love shown? By God? You are right! The answer is none. All the love shown has been shown and is being shown by BOTH **TOGETHER** the Father AND the Son. Together! The Father loves the Son, and the son loves the father.

TheUbermensch

Wait, so no love shown to human beings?

I'm confused. How does that separate God from Allah? Allah loves Muhammad.......... ??????????

unshackled

Maybe because it's Friday and it's been a very long and painful week and maybe because of it my patience is not what it could be

You're right PSac...you don't seem like yourself today. I know what you're getting at but why point out what you see as a negative tone for the thread, and then proceed to take part using the same said negative tone?

Edit: But I hear ya on the "very long and painful week". It's Friday...this is a good thing. T minus 3.5 hrs to the weekend.

N.drew

How does that separate God from Allah? Allah loves Muhammad.......... ??????????

OK, now for getting serious!

Qcmbr

I suspect that it would be socially nigh on impossible for many of the extreme believers to retract their words and publically admit to being gullible and believing in fairytales. The reverse cannot be said about non-believers since they are not proposing a faith position but an evidence position. Unlike the believer who is anchored to a concept , non- believers are more readily able to see a new perspective as new facts are presented. If anyone's god made an appearance to any skeptic here I'd bet that all would be surprised but excited to actually see something tangible. If any believer is confronted by something tangible that is against their belief ( a daily occurance ) , they will cling closer to the faith ( hence the silly attempts to cast science as merely belief and akin to religion .) That is the crux of the frustration here ,that non-believers will change their viewpoint when presented with credible facts whereas believers will simply reject any facts that run counter to their worldview and present a preferred made up story and get all offended when it gets pointed out how deceitful that is. When facts are rejected for fallacies then the conversation has veered into the crazy.

As a non-believer I'm interested in evidence and I will change my position if convinced by a coherent presentation of information that I can verify. It's bloody annoying however talking to other people who want you to give up all that hard earned realisation that only facts and reality count in a material world and stonewall based upon you having to accede to a magic world, they will not give you the time of day unless you first accept that magic exist and as long as you do that it's back slaps all around and lets just unzip imagination and disregard anything real that doesn't jive with the pretty stories. Dawkins is right not to debate those who privilege the storybook world over the scientific.

The evidence is clear - no god is intervening to stop world suffering. Draw what conclusions you will from that.

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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