by tornapart 218 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
There are reported scenarios where thousands of people have seen the same unexplained phenomenon.
Such as? Have you compared and contrasted eyewitness statements to plot the frequency and range of differences for error correction?
And no, I don't have any experiences like that.
Do you just explain all these deep rooted spiritual cultures as all just a bunch of loonies?
No as sincerely deluded.
You think that they didn't test for the validity in things?
Correct. They lived in a pre-scientific world where angels and demons were all the explanation necessary.
Isn't pseudoscience a result of too broad and open evaluation from unproven and fallacious evidence,
which derives its support more from appealing to human emotion. ? ie. Religion
Twitch, please allow me to explain. The non-believers on this forum sometimes appear to outnumber the believers (but maybe they just comment more on the threads I've been reading.)
Possibly.
Be that as it may, I'd been away from the forum for awhile, overwhelmed, in my wounded state, by the great amount of disillusionment I'd been finding here. Then I received, what I perceived to be, prodding from holy spirit to return to the forum. One of the first threads I encountered when I returned was the above question from Tornapart. The question just seemed to jump out at me and confirm that it was, indeed, holy spirit that directed me back here. God had answered my prayers for guidance, in other words.
It's too bad other people's comments and beliefs affected you to the point of not being able to participate. Glad to hear you've got a thicker skin now.
When I follow my instincts and find what I'm looking for, it's me turning the thought into action and finding the result. If it's what I expected, my bias or what I expected is confirmed. Do you see any parallel in this to what you've said/done?
Perhaps that means I've healed to the point that I can handle other people's disillusionment better now. I hope so, and I hope Tornapart will also heal without losing faith in God and the Bible.
I commend you on being able to handle other people's beliefs relative to your own. It's natural to think of beliefs that differ from your own as disillusionment. Some might go as far as saying that calling someone disillusioned because they don't believe as you do is ridicule. Doesn't really matter to me though; my conviction isn't dependant on confirmation by others.
I hope that others see the discussions and points made and decide what is right for themselves, even if it's different from my own beliefs.
Such as? Have you compared and contrasted eyewitness statements to plot the frequency and range of differences for error correction?
This link wont work until tomorrow, but the Phoenix Lights is one such event that was verified to be experienced by thousands of people. What has been coined Bigfoot is another unexplained phenomenon as told by thousands of people. Didn't you watch Unsolved Mysteries as a child? Damn that man and his creepy voice and that creepy film production and music!
-Sab
Because you write things like ... "If what was written down by these people cannot be proven to be some sort of entertainment then you have to either call them shysters or the real deal." AND you get science backwards in that statement. The onus isn't on me to prove the writings not inspired. You make the claim they are, the onus is on you.
You don't seem to want to understand what I mean by "the real deal." What I mean is that they shouldn't be discredited by discrediting people who follow their works. Their works deem followers. Discredit Biblical inerrantists because those people need to be put down a few notches, but don't discredit people trying to understand how the Bible may have came to be involving the one true God or the First Source. If one believes in such things than one shouldn't be overtly critisized for beliving that the first cause had something to do with the words of the Bible.
How can we discredit them by saying it's all fake? No one it saying it's all fake. There are probably some kernels of truth in the Bible. I just don't live my life by that chance. And some of the stories are great, the baby murdering, the incest, slavery, slave murder, lying, stealing, whores. That's some great stuff, man.
All those things you mentioned are but a fraction of the events of our own dark history. The fact that our own darkness is depicted in the Bible is no surprise. Everyone always feels God is on their side so why would the "historical writings" of ancient Israel be any different? There seems to be a pattern to me that requires stepping steps backward in perspective to appreciate and sometimes those steps come with frightening prospects.
-Sab
If one believes in such things than one shouldn't be overtly critisized for beliving that the first cause had something to do with the words of the Bible.
So what is it about the bible that makes you even wonder if it is anything beyond a purely human document?
Everyone always feels God is on their side so why would the "historical writings" of ancient Israel be any different?
They aren't.
And if god does exist, it isn't on anybody's side at all.
So what is it about the bible that makes you even wonder if it is anything beyond a purely human document?
The US Declaration of Independence was written by Thomas Jefferson. But who and what was he inspired by? That is a question with only speculative answers. What we can do is read about who Mr Jefferson was, what he was part of and why he would create such a document and very importantly who his influences were. What we would find is that the document isn't even really Jeffersons, but Jefferson's version of a larger vision that he and his company had come to create. This lifeview took all their lives into consideration.
I look at the Bible (mostly just Genesis, the Gospels and Revelation) as a document of equal vigor. It IS human, just as Jefferson's work is human, yet at the same time it cannot be considered merely human. The "Thomas Jefferson" of the Bible, however, is lost. This dispels bias, but leaves a gaping whole of mystique. The Bible holds a special place in the hearts of the original writers and they would die for it's contents. I believe that the only way for information to be "God-breathed" is for information to go through a peer review process. That's how historical documents were created and that's how modern documents are created: by human collaboration. The Bible is an ancient work of human collaboration and therefore likely contains many inspired works, imo.
-Sab
Yes but what exactly do you think shows signs of supernatural origin?
