spilled the beans (page 10)

tornapart

Crushed, I've been following your story with interest. I've often wondered what I'd do if ever confronted with elders (my husband is one but would never dob me in). I get the feeling that one is starting to get suspiscious.

You said the elder wanted to know what your real thoughts are. Well my first reaction was 'what are they? Thought Police?'

All you really need to do if confronted with this is tell them kindly but firmly that your thoughts are your own and you don't wish to share them with anyone else. They cannot disfellowship you if you keep your mouth shut. Tell them nothing. If they carry on ask them what right have they to want to know what your private thoughts are.

WinstonSmith

00DAD and tornapart make some good points there @thecrushed. There are of course many ways to tackle this as this website has shown on many occasions. The two I mentioned were the two that occured to me when I awoke.

What 00DAD says about the elders is right. You owe them nothing and buying into their authority structure will only vaildate their course in their minds. Ignoring them may get you marked as unco-operative or a trouble maker, but by sticking to your guns, they will eventually tire and move on to the 'easy win' cases in their congregation and you may get left alone.

tornapart is so right, they may not realise it themselves, but they are acting as thought police and endeavouring to clamp individual thought - a classic cult modus operandi. As mentioned above, stick to your guns.

00DAD

WinstonSmith: There are of course many ways to tackle this as this website has shown on many occasions.

Thank you for responding. I know you're going through a lot too.

You are absolutely right, there are many ways to deal with these situations and most of them are bad for you. The WTBTS has the deck stacked in their favor. They've had over 100 years to do what they do best: protect themselves and Screw You!

The one thing I can assure you when a person has gotten to the place where either you are thecrushed are at: talking to the elders will only go badly for you. They are NOT your friends. They are tools of the WTBTS and will blindly enforce their policies without thought, mercy, love or compassion.

I know firsthand. When I was getting out I didn't know about this board and had no one to talk to. I did what I thought was best and talked to the elders, men I thought were my friends. Now it's been three years and I've only talked to my oldest son once in that time.

Do NOT play by their rules. Do and you lose, by definition. Make your own rules. They don't know them and can't win.

ziddina

Wow!! The Crushed has gotten more great advice from posters!!!!

First, The Crushed, I replied via PM but will now comment on this thread - seems to work best.

I really liked Winston Smith's second scenario - his method for getting Mrs. Smith out. VERY effective, and without the use of deception and duplicity.

(My suggestions for duplicity would probably be most effective where one has a deeply indoctrinated spouse who stubbornly refuses to do research - that is, if the "awakened" mate still wants to save the marriage. When I read your earlier posts, that was the impression I received of your spouse - sorry if I misgauged the situation...)

sd-7 went thru the proverbial "wringer" - as did poor Oompa. As sd-7 said, it turned his stomach to even consider continuing as a "good" Jehovah's Witness - playing a role was NOT going to work for him. I think the same went for Oompa - it takes a certain type of mind [eeee-vil, devious, impish she-devilish...??] to be capable of going that deeply "underground", especially in that raw, "just-awakened" mental state.

I don't know whether I could have successfully done it myself, immediately after exiting. Now, realizing how little power and authority that cult and its pompous authority figures actually have - had - over my life, I could walk back in and "play the game", enjoying most of it.

Also, as I've said before, developing a sense of humor would really help.

But there are many on here, who have done it, so I guess it's not impossible. I'm just too open - too loud-mouthed with my opinions. I'd have to seriously curtail my openness - er, mouth....

Anyway... The Crushed, I mentioned earlier in a PM that information regarding people who have successfully exited the Jehovah's Witnesses, indicated that studying the bible itself is most effective in getting people out. I don't know whether they were referring to CONVERTS, or 'born-ins', but I think it would be pretty effective in both cases...

Which brings me to the following thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/225807/1/You-Your-Family-Will-Be-Harmed-If-You-Dont-Obey-The-FDS-8-15-12-WT

This thread gave me a great idea!! IF you can get your wife to "help you" [as Winston Smith suggested ] find SCRIPTURAL support for that "faithful and discreet slave class" and all the power that it's given within Watchtower literature, that might begin to create cracks in the brainwashing...

I sincerely hope that you eventually reach a good, healthy situation in your life, free of Watchtower cult influence. As another poster stated, you may need to evaluate whether you and your wife have sufficient grounds in common to have a decent marriage excluding the cult influence you originally shared...

Zid

thecrushed

so now my wife has confronted me about contacting some old friends that she found in my phone contacts. she has really started to scare me with nosy cult behavior. i told her that i didnt appreciate her doing that but she insists that she has the right to. i said that i dont do that to her ever but this didnt phase her. its a shame that now i have to lock my phone w/passkey and now my computer too which will piss her off further. i maintained my calmness though and even sat down with her to read from the bible. we read the book of mark through chapter 6 and discussed what we read. i pointed out how the pharises viewed jesus as an apostate and how they had gotten caught up in legalism. i also related his parable of the man building on rocky soil and crossed it with acts 17:11 about those nobleminded people how wanted to prove what paul said was true. she had assumed that i no longer cared about the bible and was shocked. she cut the bible discussion to go study for the meeting ironically which always seems to get in the way ofpersonal bible reading. i told her before she went to study that we could read the bible together every day if she so desired. i hope that maybe i can reach her this way.

notjustyet

TC,.

Hang in there, I want this to end with a success story!

NJY

Bobbi

I think your wife has some bad habits from her mother. I would bet that her mother went thru her stuff as a child/teenager and used "incriminating" evidence to force her to toe the jw line. Your wife probably doesn't understand how invasive her actions are because she thinks it's normal.

I honestly believe the way to crack her thinking wide open is to get her to understand her toxic relationship with her mother. Her mother is still controling her and you are a threat to that control. As we all know, the jw's are big on guilt and control, add in a mother who is jealous of her daughter and mom will use any ammo she can to keep her claws in her daughter, including using you as the big bad wolf.

Your wife hasn't left you and is obviously trying to find a way to keep you. When deep emotions are involved it is hard for your wife to think clearly. Her heart is saying that she loves both of you and for now believes the "truth". Your monster in law has many more years of influence over her daughter and you won't be able to break that in a day.

What was your relationship with your mother?

Bobbi

Knowsnothing

The crushed, I had a couple of things to say, but my stupid phone...

How would your wife handle your being DF? I am sorry to hear about this.

Captain Obvious

Excellent point, Bobbi!

In a JW's eyes, nothing is out of bounds or over the line when it's "for Jehovah". Even spying, lying, and ratting to the elders.. I her eyes, she is doing the right thing for you, because she loves you. Remember a JW doctor or lawyer (if there ever was one) wouldn't hesitate to break confidentiality and rat to the elders. They see it as above the law. Real law < God's law as they see it. Its sad.

And I agree with notjustyet, I want this to be a success story!

thecrushed

At this point all I want to do is read the bible even if it is the NWT. Ethan Hatcher used it to make fools of the JC committee that DF'd him.

spilled the beans

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