spilled the beans

by thecrushed 147 Replies latest members private

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Whew!! I've finally got some spare time!!

    "Ziddina! That is excellent advice. Crafty and difficult, but very interesting. Would it not apply not just to being able to abuse the headship principle, but to gain a few points on the earning respect as a husband scale? Taking care of everything that needs to be done, taking control of the money, being in charge (in a good way), we could add to that dressing, looking, and smelling good.. Maybe even taking control of this situation in particular. Basically being an amazing husband. ..." Captain Obvious

    Er, well, thanks for the compliment, but...

    My plan is actually much more devious - and hopefully easier to carry out...

    Let me try to organize the jumbled mass of advice I've given previously...

    1. Be prepared to play a role.

    I mentioned playing "spy" in the sense of having a "cover" that one must maintain that is probably quite different from the way you REALLY feel; also to think of it as if one were an actor playing the role of his/her life. People who have had the blinding awakening as to the true nature of the Watchtower Corporation are prone to jump right in, telling their spouse/parents/children ALL about how they've been conned, lied to, and that they really AREN'T going to "live forever in a paradise earth" with a "pet tiger/lion/bear/shark/bunny rabbit/elephant" in their back yard.

    Naturally, for someone who's been pinning ALL of their hopes on that fantasy, they ARE going to be QUITE disappointed. And resentful. And will probably dig their heels in.

    Add to that, the death threats that the Watchtower Corporation uses to keep people in line, the threat of shunning, the threats of "demunzz" attacks, the threats of becoming "apostate/evil/warped/mentally diseased", and one can see how the initial reaction TO A FULL-ON FRONTAL ASSAULT would be resistance. Which brings me to...

    2. NEVER launch a full-on frontal assault on their faith/the Watchtower Corporation.

    No, one must MUST use subtlety, tact, opportune timing, and a bit - or more - deviousness.

    Don't mention evolution, Watchtower's past failed "end times" dates, numerous contradictions within the Watchtower's publications OR those within the bible, pedophile issues - unless that is the reason you are contemplating an exit, and so on, AT THIS INITIAL POINT IN TIME. There will be PLENTY of time for that, later on. [With the possible exception of the pedophile issue - if one's child has been molested, then a prompt exit might be the best course, despite the 'fallout'...]

    Which brings me to....

    3. If you have PREMATURELY exposed your "apostate" leanings, all is NOT lost.

    You can backtrack, you can claim illness/depression, you can claim that you ran into someone at work/your mailman/your milkman/your neighbor who ASKED about the item that you've inappropriately allowed to pop out of your mouth [evolution, the trinity, other Christian religions, other religions of the world], you can make up B.S. to cover your arse if you've revealed too much in the beginning of this process.

    4. Use the Watchtower's manipulation and head-games AGAINST them.

    All right, you've woken up - realized that the Watchtower Corporation isn't true Christianity or that the bible itself isn't actually the "Word of God", but is instead the works of a group of nomadic Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern males...

    Your first instinct may be to rush out of the KH/cult so fast that you break the sound barrier. But calm down, Flash/Speedy Gonzales, in your rush to get the hell outta Dodge, you may be missing a golden opportunity. [That is, if there's still a wife/children/parents/girlfriend/boyfriend to get out, too...]

    Now that you've "awakened", you can look at the meetings, the pressure to put in "field service", the corporate-approved elders' hierarchy AND the social hierarchy within the hall, in whole new ways. You might even spot a number of manipulation methods or other revelations that you would never see, if you just rushed out the door and never looked back.

    (Like I did. I had NO family in - well, none that I was concerned about. I just walked away - and didn't know ANYthing about the parking lot scandals, I had NEVER paid attention to the elite "elders" club while I was still "in", had NEVER paid attention to the "elderettes" while I was still "in", and so on. In other words, I missed a LOT, even though I was attending, because I left rather quickly after "awakening". I would have had more opportunities to OBSERVE such things, if I'd been forced to spend more time in, to assist someone else in 'exiting'...)

    And while you're OBSERVING, you can spot ways to USE their manipulation AGAINST THEM.

    Irregular in service? Well, the Watchtower Corporation always tries to make the Rank&File feel "inferior". Use THAT as an excuse to avoid field service or increasing responsibility within the congregation. Don't want to attend a convention? Use the excuse of providing properly for your family - and don't be shy about mis-quoting scriptures to back up your decisions: "let he who will not work, neither let him eat"... Hey, THEY cherry-pick scriptures and mis-apply AND re-translate them all the time; therefore, SO CAN YOU. Just don't make your 'version' too obvious - follow it with that same, smug, "I-know-the-scriptures-better-than-"REAL"-bible-scholars" attitude that the Watchtower itself displays, and smile... Real wide... I think you get the idea.

    I suspect that EVERY method used to manipulate the Rank&File into doing "MORE MORE MORE", can be flipped on its head and turned right back around upon the Watchtower's Corporate Masters... Since you'll have to attend meetings for a while to get loved ones out, anyway, then use those as opportunities to spot those means of manipulation and how they can be turned right back around, and used to bite the Watchtower Corporation in their arses.

    More about this under #8, "Playing the Headship Card"...

    5. You will have to develop a "place of peace" within your mind, accept that you're going to have to bite your tongue, compromise, swallow your words, for a while.

    Look, I know that most of the people who've just had this epiphany are somewhat fragile. At the same time, there's often an overwhelming sense of anger at having been lied to, an extreme disappointment that the fables they've been told are merely means to control them, feelings of bitter betrayal at the unloving and sometimes dangerous actions of the Watchtower Corporation, its overseers and elders...

    So, one must reach the point of mental peace wherein they can accept that they're going to have to continue behaving "normally" around something that is now causing them great pain or deep discomfort. At least, for a while... And my intent is to cut that time down, as much as possible. Which brings up...

    6. Improve your health in preparation for the work ahead.

    Since this sort of emotional stress can be VERY difficult, I strongly recommend eating a VERY healthy diet, regular exercise, nutritional supplements if you believe in that sort of nutritional assistance - in other words, you ARE training "for a fight" of sorts.

    If you can manage it, cut back on alcohol consumption, sweets, junk food. [You'll notice I didn't say to cut them out COMPLETELY. Just reduce the amounts you consume...] These items don't usually improve one's mood [in the long run] nor do they sharpen your mind. Think of it as a mild weight-loss program that is going to strengthen you towards getting your wife/children out of the cult.

    7. Develop a hearty sense of humor.

    Let's face it, the Watchtower Corporation takes itself WAAAAAY too seriously. There's little humor in the organization; humor means that you're more relaxed and in a mental frame to step back and take things a little less seriously.

    Which a doomsday cult will try to prevent, at all costs.

    Remember, they WANT you to remain uptight, frightened, feeling that sense of "urgency", because that makes you - and your loved ones - easier to control.

    So, developing a solid sense of humor will be a strong ally in keeping your sense of balance in the coming months/years, and will help keep your loved ones from getting too serious about the changes that you're subtly slipping into their path. I also recommend reading ALL the humorous literature you can get your hands on, watch comics, funny shows - all to develop that strong sense of humor.

    'Cause you're gonna need it... Using humor can help deflect those angry, upset, scared reactions that you might otherwise get from the frightened 'still-stuck-in-it-mentally' cult member[s].

    8. Playing the 'headship' card - section A - rattling their brains.

    I'm not going to mince words; the fact that this religion is quite misogynistic - based on a Middle-Eastern male mentality - means that, if you're male, you do have certain options that aren't available to awakened female members of the cult.

    So, having said that, let's look at the excellent opportunities that the Watchtower Corporation's misogynistic attitudes can give you...

    If you've already opened up about your doubts/misgivings and your wife is eyeing you with suspicion/fear, then backtrack fast! Get back to the point [without becoming an elder or ministerial servant again] where you would be considered the "spiritual" family head.

    And one of the VERY BEST WAYS to do that, is the "Family Bible Study Night", using the BIBLE and ONLY the bible.

    For those of you who still believe in "Jehovah" or a "god", did you know that some religious surveys indicate that reading JUST the bible was the definitive factor in getting people to LEAVE the Jehovah's Witnesses??

    Having said THAT, it would only make sense to use another type of bible in the "Family Bible Study Night". Recently the Watchtower has quoted other bibles in their literature - sorry I can't quote exactly WHERE - I'll leave that to the bible scholars on-board - but when you see the Watchtower Corporation using OTHER bibles, JUMP ON THAT as a reason to use a bible OTHER than the New World Translation in your "Family Bible Study Night".

    For those of you who have realized that you don't want to follow the teachings of Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern nomadic males, or have found that evolution explains the fossil record better than the book of Genesis, or that the rock record contains no "Great Flood" layer of sedimentary rock, I want to say that USING THE BIBLE CAN WORK FOR YOU, TOO.

    But YOU would want to focus on - well, the unscientific aspects of the book of Genesis, for a start. Heck, within the first 20 verses of the very first chapter of the book of Genesis, there are three glaringly unscientific errors that might open someone's eyes. And then there's the story of Lot and his wife and two daughters... Abraham and his willingness to commit child sacrifice... Moses and his sculpting of a bronze serpent for the Israelites to worship - WITH "god's" approval - which is odd, considering that a few chapters away, "god" was almighty pissed about the whole "worship a golden calf" thing. In addition, there's the book referenced below, which lists many examples of the places where the bible contradicts itself - and there's a hilarious YouTube video on the subject, too...

    If someone could please post a link to "The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories", I'd appreciate it! Thanks in advance!

    8. Playing the 'headship' card - section B - making them thoroughly sick of "Jehovah's Theocratic Arrangements".

    Hee hee hee!! [slaps self....] Anyway, here are some ideas - and I think that others have used some of these tactics to good effect, too.

    Once you have regained that position as the [apparent] "spiritual" family head, you'll want to "kill" them with "kindness" - THEOCRATIC kindness, that is.

    [And THIS section is why the previous advice about playing a role, getting into physical shape and developing a sense of humor are so fitting!!]

    Keep in mind that you DON'T HAVE TO BE SUPER-HUBBY OR SUPER-DADDY to pull this off. Get THAT right out of your head.

    However, you WILL want to take control of the family using the "spiritual" family head excuse. And using that line, get your wife to do MORE MORE MORE - I earlier suggested that you push her out into service, but that won't work if she's already pioneering. In THAT case, get her involved in things that will eat up her time and make it MORE DIFFICULT for her to pioneer - like helping you with the yard work,because an "untidy home reflects badly on Jehovah". Like making her own clothes and those of the children, because "laziness reflects badly on Jehovah". Like cooking all the meals from scratch, because using commercially-prepared foods, shortcuts, and mixes "reflects badly on Jehovah".

    This next part reminds me a bit of training a dog - using reward/punishment as motivation... If you DON'T have a pioneering wife - especially if she isn't particularly fond of going out in service, then drag her out in service. Pray before EVERY meal, and INSIST on reading the "daily scripture" - but FROM THE BIBLE and read its context, too. Be an "uber- spiritual" family head - and use that to BLOCK anything that she enjoys.

    Now, here's the fun part...

    Be "uber-spiritual" for 3 - 4 - 6 months, until she's thoroughly sick of it, THEN "slack off" for 3 - 4 - 6 months - AND REPEAT .

    You want to get the message across - TOTALLY NON-VERBALLY - that when you are a "Theocratic Jehovah's Witness", then life is HARD for her.

    And when you are NOT "theocratic", then life becomes EASIER for her.

    Repeat THAT for a few cycles - a year or two - and she'll get the message SUB-consciously, which will work to undermine her determined devotion to the Watchtower Corporation and its doomsday-setting manipulations...!!

    9. Getting them to think.

    This can be very tricky. The Watchtower Corporation has armed its members against independent thinking, researching the International Bible Students/Watchtower Society's history, getting a higher education, doing research on the internet - OR in libraries, BUT...

    From OTHER posters with heads far wiser than mine, I'd like to pass along what THEY'VE generally mentioned as effective.

    NEVER make absolute statements. Ask QUESTIONS INSTEAD. Comments like, "The Watchtower was a member of the United Nations!" is NEVER as effective as pulling out one of the older magazines or books and asking, "Why did the Watchtower Corporation print these articles that are so POSITIVE in tone about the United Nations?"

    This is another area in which you will be much more effective if you're "playing the role" and attending meetings. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN for problematic teachings - that recent Watchtower which, in effect, advised battered women to STAY with their abusive spouses was a DOOZY - and a great example. USE THESE IDIOCIES AGAINST THE WATCHTOWER CORPORATION every chance you get - but again, NO FULL FRONTAL ASSAULTS!!! Ask QUESTIONS or postulate hypothetical situations, instead...

    *******************************************************************************************************

    A few points I want to reiterate...

    (a) You don't have to be perfect. You're just fine the way you are, you don't have to be "Super-Hubby" or "Super-Daddy" to pull this off...

    (b) You've actually got all the time that you'll need, to accomplish this. "Armageddon" ISN'T coming, their time schedules are total fabrication, and these facts work in YOUR favor.

    (c) DO NOT ATTACK DIRECTLY. You must SNEAK UP ON THEIR BRAINS!!!

    Best results to you...
    Zid

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Aw crap...

    Scroll bars.... dammit!

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Bump...

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Well, it looks like I'm in this thread by myself...

    So I get to make some more comments!!

    I slept on the "headship" issue for women who have learned the truth about "The Truth", but still have believing husbands, and I've come up with some ideas...

    If I were in the situation of being an awakened Jehovah's Witness wife, I'd play a variation of #8 B above - "making them thoroughly sick of "Jehovah's Theocratic Arrangements"

    If hubby is uber-theocratic, I'd put on an appearance of beng one too - but with "modifications". I wouldn't "pioneer", but I WOULD insist that HE go out in service every weekend - as early as possible. When asked if I were going to come along, I'd play some variation of "wimmin are the 'weaker' vessel" - be "indisposed" - since this cult is still mentally stuck in the 1950s, I'd use every feeble old male-chauvinist 'saw' that was around in the 1950s.

    When it came to sex, if he was 'horny' I'd quote that scripture that talks about "refraining for a time so that we not be tempted". If he was frigid - however that's described in guy-talk - I'd use the "Do not be depriving each other of the marriage due" to push him into having more sex.

    The idea is, to MAKE THINGS UNCOMFORTABLE for the still-believing mate, using THEIR OWN TEACHINGS AGAINST THEM. You don't even have to bring up failed prophecies, flip-flopping teachings, extended and over-extended "generation" teachings - at first; although there will be room for that, LATER ON.

    And as I mentioned above, as soon as the believer reduces their "theocratic" activity or shows signs of tiring of the endless round of meetings, field service, assemblies, Watchtower blather and so on, then YOU REDUCE THEIR STRESS.

    Again, as I also mentioned above, one wants to "sneak up" on their brain. One wants to NON-VERBALLY communicate or get the concept across, that things are HARD when trying to measure up to the Watchtower Corporation's insane edicts, and things are EASIER when they "release" or step away from the Watchtower merry-go-round, even if just for a bit.

    I also want to reiterate, that one wants to do this IN THE MOST "THEOCRATICALLY LOVING" WAY POSSIBLE - well, theocratically "LOVING", in much the same way as the Watchtower Corporation actually applies it.

    One would have to do it subtly, do it with a BIG "theocratic" smile on your face [as you're carrying out your plan, you may be the ONLY one at the KH with a REAL smile on your face], do it NON-CONFRONTATIONALLY, do it using THEIR OWN TEACHINGS AGAINST THEM - but remember, we're NOT talking about face-to-face confrontation here; we're talking about USING THEIR OWN EDICTS TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT for the believing member.

    To make things even more confusing for your believing mate, be super-super kind and nice and AGREEABLE to him/her WHILE you are making things difficult for them!!! [And remember, the Watchtower Corporation LOVES to use confusion against its members - just look at the "overlapping generation" teaching for evidence of that, for starters...]

    'Kill 'em with Kindness', as I've said before...

    And maintain the pattern of "easy living" when they back off from the Watchtower Corporation's meetings and teachings, "hard time" when they're 'active' in the Watchtower Corporation's sick merry-go-round.

    I'll discuss the situation of women who NEVER WERE Jehovah's Witnesses, married to believing men, nexxt - though I will say right now, you've got quite an advantage over Jehovah's Witness women who've awakened, who are still married to active JW men... You are not bound by either the "headship" arrangement NOR by the guilt/shame/belittling that the Watchtower Corporation heaps upon dissenting female members...

  • Captain Obvious
    Captain Obvious

    Excellent work Zid!

    I understand now. Though there may have to be some kind of modification to #8 in my case. It would be a bit out of character in our house. My wife naturally puts me in the lead, and it works for us. I definitely see the behavior modification bit being effective though.

    Thanks for the clarification! That would be a good post to save for later, as I'm sure this will come up again in the future.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Cool!

    Thanks, Captain Obvious!

    I ran some of my ideas past one of my pagan friends last night. She made some interesting comments and suggestions, and when I get the computer back tomorrow, I'll post some of her observations.

    Zid

  • thecrushed
    thecrushed

    ziddina sorry I just got around to reading your last post. I've been very busy working a new job 6 days a week. Recently been reading "1984" which is jaw dropping in it's allegorical significance. Anyway I wanted to personally thank you for your lengthy posts. I appreciate your zeal. I've considered the uber super duper JW approach but alas I'm not sure I can stomach it for now. I calmed her down recently by promising her that I would follow christ's example. That much is true whether I believe in him as a diety, angel or not. I can still follow his example of love. In the coming months I'm going to keep educating myself on the false prophecies and doctrinal inconsistences of the JW cult as well as study cult patterns and psychology. I feel as if I need to expand my mind's eye before I attempt any great assault on seriously entrenched mind control. For now I must be content with having a mind free of the chains of the WT for myself. Even if It's just control of the space between my two ears it is enough because I'm reminded of Ethan Hatchers words: "remember that life is a state of mind

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Wow. Dude, we just became kindred spirits, just like that! You've got to read my story, because it is likely to be at least somewhat similar to your future. Sounds like the Mrs. has considerable power in the relationship, if she's able to control the finances and even find out about your purchases. Ziddina's got some great thoughts there. But the emotionally destructive nature of discovering these things about the Society, at least for me they crippled my ability to play the spy game. It was simply better to do battle with the elders head-on in a committee and get out than it would have been to try and stay in. It was corrosive to the very soul. Considering how angry I was, I was also quite eager to see what they'd do, and it was invigorating to know that they were just ordinary men in suits, nothing more. Self-righteous, satisfied that their trite explanations and the simple fact that they're elders will be enough to keep you under heel.

    My wife didn't go and throw up when I told her, she just b.s.'d like she actually agreed with me, got really quiet, and then turned on me and simply turned me in to the elders at the first opportunity. It took me almost a year of study to even begin to be ready to tangle with three elders, and still I was too scared to do as well against them in open combat as I would've preferred (but did pretty darn well for a rookie apostate if I do say so myself). So anything you can do to avoid that scenario, you should do it. This is clearly hitting you both very hard, and sometimes marriages don't or shouldn't survive something like this. So how you handle this is going to play a major factor in how that will go. If the elders do a committee on you and DF, expect a prolonged period of emotional abuse. Oh, right, expect that regardless unless you find a clever way to turn the tables like ziddina suggests. The kind of crap you wouldn't believe. The kind of crap that will make you sick inside, sick enough to think the unthinkable in every conceivable way. But then, I can't know the dynamics of your relationship, I'm just going on what I could read in the limited time I have.

    Gear up, my friend. Like it or not, you've just been drafted into a war. And the question is, just how much are you willing to sacrifice to achieve victory? Is freedom more important than anything else to you? How willing are you to bleed for what you believe in?

    The horrors you will face, though, do not have to break you. You cannot and must not let the JWs tighten their strangle hold on you. Knowledge will be your greatest ally. One of the biggest things that you need to learn about is propaganda techniques/logical fallacies. The entire belief system is laced with them. Once you understand that, you will be far more able to think on your feet. You will become stronger with each day, and every time they hit you, your face will harden that much more. And you'll realize that your grandma can hit harder than them.

    A surprising number of scriptures they will show you are taken out of context. It was embarrassing how quiet the elders got when I showed them that Proverbs 4:18 was taken out of context. They of course just jump to the next isolated verse that hardly has anything to do with a 21st century religious organization that desperately wants to be Judeo-Christian.

    It's been two years since my judicial committee. It's one of the hardest things to look at the situation as it is now and say, yes, it's going to get better. When you're there, it feels like you're dying inside and facing this unimaginable dilemma. But a man of conscience and courage knows when it is time to take a stand. He also knows what battles he can win, and fights those battles instead of just charging into the fray at the first opportunity. "You have to know that moment in a fight when you'll either win or lose, and you have to know how to wait for it."

    And...yes, it's going to get better. Believe me, I know. You will pass through fire. But you'll find out who you really are when it's over.

    Most of all, you don't have to do this alone. Your family may sell you up the river, but there are many who can help. I'm one of them. Don't do anything you don't really want to do, and don't promise your wife anything that you know you cannot do. Her trust in you has in her mind been grossly violated; it's on the same level as adultery to her. It'll be the elephant in the room for as long as your marriage lasts. But if you prove yourself a man of conscience and of honor and of loyalty to her as your wife, she will in the end be forced to respect your strength as a man. And even if she does not, you will have your freedom.

    This is a one-way trip, learning about the organization. You're already past the point of no return. But you can do this. If you are willing to sacrifice, to do what needs to be done, you will be fine. Good luck, and keep us posted. You have my support.

    --sd-7

  • Bubblegum Apotheosis
    Bubblegum Apotheosis

    A remarkable read for every lurker and JWN member, the empathy and feeling for each other, it reminds of a teacher who taught love and joy two thousand years ago! How many men and women are sitting back reading your story, and all the sensible counsel to keep your wife. I wish Kingdom Halls had this kind of open dialogue and unbiased kindness!

    To lurkers, this is not how all situations or expressions of doubts will work out. My phone has rung many times, with wives or husbands crying "My Husband is an Apostate!". Keep sensible in your methods, slowly disseminate your information on a need to know-basis. Peace!

  • Bubblegum Apotheosis

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