AAWA, J M____ E______, and me

by zed is dead 577 Replies latest members private

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  Marvin: If you were a fader who had been added, without your knowledge or permission, to a facebook group where your personal identity would be revealed to known WTS apologists, general nutters and anyone who could be a WTS representative, how would you feel if the people who had done this:

  1. denied they'd done it.

  2. claimed other people had done it instead of them.

  3. after finally admitting they'd done it, claimed you weren't really harmed and there was no risk

  4. after having the potential dangers explained, said they weren't going to do anything 'cause it sounded like too much effort

  5. after being told of people who had been outed, told everyone that they were just liars

  6. used a lame excuse to stop communicating and went silent other than to call people names

  THAT is where we are with the AAWA and why there is so much bad feeling.

  Simon,

  Bad behavior is indefensible, and I won’t defend it.

  From my seat the paradox is this: I see good people I have no reason to doubt saying “X” and good people I have no reason to doubt saying “X is not quite the way it is”. And I see lots of hurt each way. Lots of it!

  When you see people you love hurting and at loggerheads, and there is something to gain by disentangling whatever happened, then you try and figure it out. That’s what I’m trying to do.

  In answer to what you ask above, assuming everything you assert, I’d be very, very upset. I already know folks are very, very upset. I also know there’s lots of bad things being said; venomous things. If AAWA is the proverbial anti-Christ then I’ll have no part of it. If AAWA is really an attempt by honest and sincere people to do something good and they’re willing to grow despite mistakes, then maybe I’ll work with it collaboratively.

  In this discussion much has been said of my apparent inexperience with things Facebook, and those folks are correct that I’m not very experience with Facebook. But if I’m so ignorant and technologically crippled, then I wonder why someone like me has been spared all this tragedy? How in the world could I have been spared this catastrophe when of all these people I’m the apparent techno-cripple? It is just sheer luck that in all my wanderings in and around things AAWA that I managed to avoid all this?

  My guess is that I take my privacy seriously and did the simple thing of taking great care what I did and when, even predating AAWA. Perhaps the mistake made by AAWA was thinking others would do and had done as I did and not as others did. I’m not saying this to shift blame. I’m sharing what may have been the ultimate fulcrum of mistake. Getting to the bottom of whatever caused this to transpire is the only way to really “fix it”.

  I do not think insincerity or utter disregard are where mistakes were made. More than likely, I think it’ll boil down to something far less sinister and far simpler.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

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  “I think "SlimBoy" is a big Teddy Bear…”

  ÁrbolesdeArabia,

  Slimboyfat is most definitely one of the good guys. I love him too.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  zed is dead

  Marvin,

  You have been spared tragedy because (and I will make it big for you since you are pretty thick):

  YOU ARE NOT A FADER

  zed
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

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  “The whole Facebook thing just feels like it was rushed out without any proper upfront planning which would be bad for a company selling widgets but terrible for a group dealing with sensitive issues around the WTS.”

  Simon,

  I agree rushing was a contributor. I haven’t asked and don’t intend to, but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn the founders wished they’d taken more time, and that they acted when they did at least in part because they were so excited and just couldn’t stand it anymore. I’ve seen it before. It happens. What seems like ages of time to an impassioned enthusiast is a moment in time to a professional administrator, and neither passion nor enthusiasm was in short supply among AAWA founders leading up to its rollout. But by now, my guess is there’s a whole new layer of hide that wasn’t there before, not to mention experience.

  “These failures sent confidence in their plans and processes but the subsequent handling of it is what has really caused the damage though.”

  Honestly, from my perspective the whole thing was a bit mercurial. What was “clear” to some was “confusing” to others. So much was being attempted at one time. So much feedback and mixed signals coming from all quadrants at one time. So many volunteers were pouring in at once, nearly all of which were ready to get busy “now”. Add a few unexpected grenades and here we are.

  When/if AAWA gets beyond this it’ll be a tougher and more efficient customer as a result.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

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  “You have been spared tragedy because (and I will make it big for you since you are pretty thick):

  “YOU ARE NOT A FADER”

  zed,

  You presume a great deal of my person and circumstances.

  I love you regardless.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  still thinking

  Do folks around here even know what a defense looks like?

  Yes...I read your defense about what a great guy cedars is and how he helped you with your business.

  That had nothing to do with what was being discussed. It was pure defense on Cedars behalf by you. And was irrelevant. You came accross like his PR guy.
• 

  talesin

  People who state they are counselors have a moral responsibility to protect those they are working with.

  That is my opinion, from the POV of someone who has been trained and worked with rape and incest victims, and in crisis intervention.

  This group, AAWA, due to incompetence, has betrayed the trust of those they want to help. The warning here is to be cautious. We have already 'gotten to the bottom' of the issue.

  When dealing with exJWs, it is important for any Professional to understand that they can be naive, especially about the internet. The burden is on AAWA, as an 'organization' offering counseling, support, etc., to abuse surivivors, to provide protection ... they failed.

  This is why I say you are 'victim blaming' ..... once again. You say you are not shifting the blame, after subtly doing just that.

  Perhaps the mistake made by AAWA was thinking others would do and had done as I did and not as others did. I’m not saying this to shift blame. I’m sharing what may have been the ultimate fulcrum of mistake.

  It is AAWA's responsibility to protect their members. When I helped a friend set up an exJW LGBT support group, confidentiality was the prime consideration, so we ensured people's identities were protected. A lot of care/effort was put to making a video by AAWA ... little to none was expended on the security of its members. This is my main problem with this group, and you keep wanting to shift responsibility to those people who were hurt by sloppy management.

  You could have taken a couple of hours to read the history on here, as provided by Simon, instead of berating victims and those who were trying to explain things to you. Instead, you chose to act like a prima donna, demanding special treatment. You bragged about all the money and time you have put into the cause. A little humility would be appropriate. We are all supposed to be equal here.

  And you have the audacity to call others out for creating drama, when you have been the instigator.

  I hope you are satisfied. Now, that was a nice suck-up post to Simon.... carry on, Mr. Big Shot.

  tal
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  zed is dead

  Going back to my original post, we know that J Mason Emerson has no qualms with outing faders. Add to that Rick Fearon and Danny Hazard, AAWA is an epic fail in the making. The vetting process must be a doozy!

  zed
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  talesin

  And I must say, you are dismissive and ASS-UM-E a lot about others, too. You seem to feel you have higher qualifications than anyone else on this thread, and that means you have the authority to put others down.

  3 years rape crisis line

  2 years group facilitation\

  3 years working with youth-at-risk (1 as a live-in counsellor)

  2 years working in mental health

  2 PUBLISHED articles (newspaper and magazine)

  2 years as a festival organizer

  What are YOUR qualifications, aside from your personal website? Have you ever been paid to do this work?
• 

  zed is dead

  Tal,

  We both are hearing Marvin blow his own horn. Unfortunately, it is not pressed to his lips when he blows it.

  zed